Non binary and that sort of thing.

Discussion in 'Gay & Lesbian Rights' started by Yant0s, Oct 12, 2018.

  1. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    With very few exceptions (and those have a long held objective medical diagnosis), a person is either male or female. That's determined biologically and cannot be changed.

    How an individual handles their biological status is their concern. For those very few who cannot handle the facts of their birth and engage in a fantasy, they require mental health care, but really I don't care as long as they keep their foolishness to themselves.
     
  2. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Wrong on every count.

    I have had these discussions with you before, either you have a poor memory or are deliberately telling falsehoods.

    I believe homosexuality is morally wrong and a biological and scientific abnormality. But as humans are capable of managing themselves in a polite manner, I have never advocated that homosexuals be put locked up or treated differently as long as they live and let live.

    In fact, I have argued many many times that the govt must treat everyone equally - the govt cannot give or deny benefits such as social security based on sexual orientation.

    But live and let live, and the govt being truly equal in its actions, and the Constitution, is a 2 way street. By demanding one group be treated equally, all groups must be treated equally. Private business included. If a business wants to refuse treatment to Christians or gun owners or blacks or Jews or gays, thats the right of the business owner.

    The real difference between you and me is that I trust people to own firearms, live their lives as they see fit to live, and reap the rewards of their success and the pain of their failure. You think people are all evil and will be evil unless a handfull of people - who are miraculously not evil - use the power of the govt to force their view on the unwashed ignorant masses.
     
  3. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Gays locked up? I never suggested you said such a thing. Why would you even bring up LOCKED up?
    But you were against gay marriage.
    Discrimination is illegal. Period. So no, you advocating it, means you are against LGBT equality.

    Firearms? WTF does that have to do with this thread.
    And I own firearms, so why would you think I don't want people to own firearms?
    I rifle and bow hunt.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2018
  4. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The problem is the government does not treat everyone equally. You can be fired for being gay or trans in most places but you cannot be for claiming religious preferences.

    As for a person that completes looks acts and lives as a male, are you really wanting to force them to use the females bathroom such as the below? Also what do you or anyone gain by screaming they are female?

    I think it’s sad that we have to have laws to force bigots to remain civil, but here we are.

    upload_2018-12-24_22-11-20.jpeg upload_2018-12-24_22-11-40.jpeg
     
  5. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    WRONG.

    I believe and have always believed that the govt has no role in marriage. The govt should not define or sanction marriage, should not require a marriage license and should not award benefits or penalties based on marital status.

    If 2 gays want to make a personal commitment to each other, that's their business. If they want to do it in a church that supports same sex marriage, thats their business.

    If they want to use the govt to force other people to participate or support their personal commitment to each other, then thats an abuse and I oppose it. If a church does not believe in same sex marriage and that homosexuality is a sin, then the gays have no right to encroach on that church.

    If a business owner does not want to serve gays or Christians or Jews or gun owners or children, then that's the right of the business owner. Its his business.

    And I will repeat, the real difference between you and me is that I trust people to live their lives as they see fit and that the vast majority will do the right thing. If there were no "anti-discrimination" laws (which are now discrimination laws) then the huge majority of people would serve whoever walked into their business, and people would live and let live.

    You do not trust people, you think everyone is a racist and a hater, and that if there were not a few "enlightened" people to use the govt to force their beliefs on the nation then there would be wide spread chaos and hatred on very corner of the nation.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  6. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    As I have posted many, many times (and just posted a minute ago - see post #55 this OP), the govt should have no role in marriage. Not in licensing or defining or awarding benefits/penalties based upon marital status.

    The problem is that the govt is involved. The solution is to remove the govt from such personal areas.

    You cannot be fired for being gay or trans. For example, see obama executive order 13672 (which expanded EO 11478 from Nixon and EO 13087 from Clinton). Many places have expanded "accomodation laws" to outlaw firing or even perceived disrespect of gay/trans.

    In many places, a person gets in trouble just for calling a person the wrong pronoun. Thats how insane these trans people and their supporters have become.

    Appearance (including surgery) does not change a man into a woman or a woman into a man. People who undertake such extreme measures as surgical alteration (and there are very very few such people) have a mental illness, they live a fantasy.

    As long as such people do not try to force their fantasy on others, as long as they are not dangerous to others, then I don't care how far they go in their fantasy. I'm not going to point at them and scream they are female, I'm going to go about my business and live and let live - until they try to push their fantasy on me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  7. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    What you believe is irrelevant.
    The gov't gives married couples special conditions. Tax breaks, inheritance rights, etc. The list goes on and on.
    So, it needs to include all married couples, not just a select group.
    Legally, marriage is a contract. Therefore the license requirement.

    Discrimination in this country is illegal. No matter your reason for wanting to discriminate.

    The bold is absolute horse hockey.
    I let everyone live how they wish, as long as they don't infringe upon another's rights. You support the blacks have a separate bathroom approach and don't see that as infringing on their rights.
     
  8. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    You prove my final point - that you believe the individual is not important, and must be managed by some "elite".

    I argue that the govt should reflect the foundational beliefs of the people. Read Bastiat, The Law, its free on the internet.

    Reread my post - we agree. If the govt is going to award benefits or penalties, it must award them equally.

    But the fundamental problem is the govt being involved in such personal decisions in the first place. The govt should not be involved in "the bed room", and that includes marriage. The govt should not license or define marriage, or award benefits or access penalites based on marital status.


    Discrimination is very legal, its found in university student application acceptance and govt hiring quotas and govt contract awards. Its found in public schools and govt offices. Its better called reverse discrimination, although Asians are often the victim. Religious people, conservatives, Asians, white men, Trump supporters, all are discriminated against and its even encouraged by the media and govt.

    That reflects a poor understanding of rights.

    If its my bathroom, if I own it and maintain it and pay for it, then I have the right to determine who gets to use it. Do you clean that bathroom, pay for the water and toilet paper and soap and electricity and insurance? No, you have nothing at all invested in it and have no responsibility for it, but you want to tell me what to do with my property.

    You want to tell everyone else what to do with their property and time and skills and money. You fear that if an "enlightened" person (such as you perceive yourself) did not use the govt to force your view on everyone else, then there would be rampant chaos and violence.

    You do not want to let everyone live how they wish, your claim is utter BS.
     
  9. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

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    Factually false. Only a limited number of statuses are protected from discrimination by law. For example, as a business owner I could refuse to do business with redheads with no legal reprecussions. A lot of financial ones maybe.
     
  10. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Says the guy who insists the government discriminate against the unmarried.
     
  11. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    can you quote him saying that?
     
  12. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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  13. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    of course.
     
  14. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    maybe you misread. Can you quote him saying he wants to discriminate against the unmarried? Because the quote you provided doesn't show him saying that.
     
  15. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    So you took one look at that brain scan and said, "That's got General Patton written all over it." Have I got that about right?
    Which they're not...
    ...so this is just nonsense.
     
  16. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  17. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    From the article:

    Despite the study’s consistent sex-linked patterns, the researchers also found considerable overlap between men and women in brain volume and cortical thickness, just as you might find in height. In other words, just by looking at the brain scan, or height, of someone plucked at random from the study, researchers would be hard pressed to say whether it came from a man or woman.

    So how in hell do you get from that article that anyone with female plumbing can be determined to have the mind of a man?
     
  18. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I didn't. I said "I know someone who has the brain (according to a brain scan) of a man..." 'Someone' means one person, not 'anyone.'

    I didn't inspect the brainscan personally. A doctor did, and came to that conclusion.

    Additionally, its not merely just brain size/characteristics, but also brain activity that indicates (note: Im not claiming 'proves') differences between the sexes.

    https://eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-05/esoe-tba051818.php

    Taken as a hole, its not unreasonable to conclude, as the doctor apparently did, that someone who:
    -claims they identify as the other sex
    -exibits psychological and behavioral attributes of the other sex
    -has brain characteristics more common to the other sex
    -has brain activity more common to the other sex
    would likely benefit from hormone therapy to make them appear more like the other sex.
     
  19. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Dunno who the hell you think you're kidding.
    Ah, so you didn't mean to say that article says the gender of a person at random can be determined by a brainscan, just this particular woman you're calling a man. Got that about right, haven't I?

    :roll:
    Coincidentally or otherwise, believing that conclusion is precisely what a paragon of slack-jawed credulity would do. Why you would do that I leave to others to figure out.
    This of course is being absurdly charitable.
    Sure she would, just like a midget who wants to be an NBA star would "benefit" from a pair of stilts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  20. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He claims to be, and by all appearances is, much happier now. I'm going with his word over your doubt.
     
  21. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    She is blissfully deluded, obviously...
    ...and it really is a disgrace that someone who presumably hasn't gotten within lightyears of Room 101 can nevertheless be made to believe something far more thunderously insane than 2+2=5.
     
  22. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you aware that we're all essentially being subjected to hormone therapy? The philosophical discussion is moot when the choice is removed.

    "Estrogens at polluting levels have been detected at sites close to waste water treatment facilities and in groundwater at various sites globally. Estrogens at pollutant levels have been linked with breast cancer in women and prostate cancer in men. Estrogens also perturb fish physiology and can affect reproductive development in both domestic and wild animals. Treatment of plants with steroid estrogen hormones or their precursors can affect root and shoot development, flowering and germination. However, estrogens can ameliorate the effects of other environmental stresses on the plant."

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412016304494

    Reading between the 'pc' lines, we can logically conclude that its having similar effects on the presentation of our gender.

    'Gender dysphoria' is just the beginning. Its those of us genetically predisposed to be more easily effected by hormone changes. The more this crap builds up in our environment and thus in us, the more common and pronounced the effects will become.

    Im not here to try and convince you that gender is a choice. Im showing you that folks are having their gender messed with regardless of choice. Voluntary therapy is just a way to try and cope with the effects of what is essentially a mass chemical spill (or potentially an attack) on humanity.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  23. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Just as an aside, the Spanish word is problema,
    Problemas, plural, problemo, is misspelled.
     
  24. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    "No problemo" is a slang expression used and popularized in North American English to indicate that a given situation does not pose a problem. It has roughly the same meaning as the expression "no problem". The expression is sometimes used as an instance of "pseudo-Spanish" or Mock Spanish.
     

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