OK....your DEAD....now what?

Let's keep things in context. You made a nonsensical assertion and claimed it was a FACT...

I responded:

​

Now you are trying to claim that Descarte's "I think therefore I am" is the same your "Energy gained awareness of its existence and this awareness was then able to manipulate energy (manifest itself into physical reality)".

Now you are trying to claim that since Descarte's "I think therefore I am" is in college textbooks your "Energy gained awareness of its existence and this awareness was then able to manipulate energy (manifest itself into physical reality)" is in college textbooks.

You are taking your avatar name too seriously. If you think you can conflate Descarte's comment with your assertion, you are far from gifted.

 

Where did I state "that all claims in relation to the nature of God were wrong"?

 

Look - that you disagree with this claim - is disagreeing with your own existence.

YOU - are energy. YOU are aware that you exist. It then follows that energy (YOU) gained awareness of its existence.

What is it that not understand ?

Not only do you exist - you are able to manipulate energy through force of will.

Proof: Look down at your thumb. Wiggle your thumb. Congratulations - your awareness was able to manifest a thought into physical reality.

Capesce ?

 

You can not, in general, say any claims in relation to God are wrong without this claim being fallacy.

The one exception is where two claims contradict each other. In this case then one of the claims must be false but, you still can not say either claim is wrong without this claim being fallacious.

 

It would be important to differentiate at this point, the difference behind the concept of the unknown and the things we humans have created when discussing "God". There may very well be something we would consider God....but it certainly isn't anything we wrote down while herding sheep.

 

Within minutes of our death we can know pretty well all the mysteries of the universe......
and all of history......
but we are free to go off into anger
and denial if we wish.......

Our deceased pets will come after us to make us
feel better about the whole place and situation.....
but we can even reject them if we choose to do so......

We are free to think whatever we wish after death.....
pretty much like we do right now.....

An Olympic athlete who spent a lot of time with extremely
poor Falasha Jews in Ethiopia.... marvelled at how thankful
they were for what little they had.....
in comparison to us......
we can be unthankful for astonishing wealth.

 

Would you like to tell me what the alternative would be?

Yes.... I personally do think that fundamental or nearly fundamental energy
nearly an eternity ago in the past came to a realization somewhat like.....
"I think therfore I AM" .... and then began a number of experiments that
resemble The Cyclic Model of the Universe / Multiverse.

 

While matter and energy can certainly replace or become one another they are not the same thing. Consciousness or thought as we know it do not take place on a quantum scale or smaller making speculation on this subject entertainment rather than useful data. It is fun to imagine but, that is the extent of current use and we may someday find things beyond what we understand just as Star Trek did.
Until such time however, stating opinion based fantasy as fact makes anyone out to be rather crazy.

 

Funny story.......
my wife often asks me......
"Why did you do that?"

and my reply is often...."Stupidity!"

and she has great difficulty arguing with my answer!

 

If......
fundamental or nearly fundamental energy did NOT become
cognizant long before the most recent Big Bang event then
we limit evolution of intelligence to 13.72 billion years or less.......
which I have enormous difficulty comprehending????

 

Why? Do you have some sense of how long it "should" take for intelligence to come into being?

If the Universe started with God aren't we to assume that "intelligence" took 0.0 seconds to evolve?

 

Actually.... it is possible to have both freewill and an overall plan.......
basically....... Einstein and Celine Dion got to their levels of consciousness
and ability partly due to a series of past lives........
and also.....
Charlie Manson and Jeffrey Dahmer.... also
didn't descend down to their level in one mere lifetime either.

It is nice though that this topic is attracting some serious
research:


http://www.southampton.ac.uk/news/2014/10/07-worlds-largest-near-death-experiences-study.page

Results of world's largest Near Death Experiences study published

 

Yes... chapter 13 of
Stephen Hawking's Universe,
entitled The Anthropic Principle postulates an
infinite number of Big Bang events extending back to
essentially eternity in the past......
and I agree with him.

His theory fits reasonably well with the NDE of former Atheist
Mellen Benedict....(with the exception that STephen Hawking Ph. D's
variation of the Cyclic Model is random.... but what Mellen Benedict
reports is planned)......

I believe in the heresy of a G-d who learns and gets better and better at
creation......

http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/experiences/mellen-thomas-benedict.html#a05

 

And you are of course free to speculate or have difficulty understanding. But, you used the key term this time which is very smart.

"IF"

Right back to making opinion into fact aren't 'ya....hopeless it seems.

 

First things first.
You failed to address the following from my previous post.

Now you are trying to claim that Descarte's "I think therefore I am" is the same your "Energy gained awareness of its existence and this awareness was then able to manipulate energy (manifest itself into physical reality)".

Now you are trying to claim that since Descarte's "I think therefore I am" is in college textbooks your "Energy gained awareness of its existence and this awareness was then able to manipulate energy (manifest itself into physical reality)" is in college textbooks.​

 

Stop tap dancing and trying to deflect. Where did I state "that all claims in relation to the nature of God were wrong"?

 

Agreed. Perhaps the goat herders accidentally got something right but, that is about as much as one can say.

 

You have failed ... period. It does not matter what Descarte's meant - or if my claim is written in a college textbook. Neither of these changes the truth or falseness of the claim.

1) I think therefore I am = We know we exist because we think (are self aware). as per textbook.
2) If you take quantum theory - as I have done - you will quickly find out that matter is a form of energy/that they interchange. If it makes you feel better - you can substitute matter/energy - everywhere you seen energy in my previous posts. It makes no difference. I stated up front that the term energy was used to simplify (for the reader) but, this is also technically correct. As per textbook.

3) the I/We, discussed in 1) is a human. A human is matter/energy. As per textbook.

Substitute 3 into 1. Energy/Matter thinks therefore it exists.

Assuming you have not always known of your own existence (had thoughts) it then follows that

A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, energy/matter started to think - gained knowledge of its own existence.

You are energy - you know you exist - at some point after conception, you figured out that you exist (I think therefor I am) - at some point some configuration of energy/matter (YOU) became aware of your existence.

 

As previously stated, though matter may become energy and vice versa...they are far from the same thing and cannot be freely exchanged in meaning or function. In fact by playing a quantum card you are designating energy above matter even if the quantum state is vague enough to be considered both. The human animal however is absolutely matter based and energy but a piece of what it is...the energies you delve into are mere speculation and paranormal fantasy impossible to evaluate by scientific principle.

 

YOU'RE

Hell is other people's spelling online.

 

I used the term energy to simplify the conversation. It matters not to the central point whether we use matter, energy, or some combination of the two.

At some point, matter, energy or some combination of the two, became aware of its own existence.

 

Actually...in this context "Humans" became conscious, although we could expand this to include other animals. What you are claiming is not found in ANY evidence and in fact is relatively easy to debunk with it. Quantum entanglement might perhaps be manipulated into some twisted fabrication to make up a neat story that could be turned into a Sci-Fi novel but, not a scientific paper or hypothesis.
You are of course welcome to your opinions, but unwelcome in making them into facts.

 

ecco said:
First things first. You failed to address the following from my previous posts.

Your claim was that "Energy gained awareness of its existence and this awareness was then able to manipulate energy (manifest itself into physical reality)" is in college textbooks. That is a patent falsehood. If you base your arguments on falsehoods, then one must presume that your entire argument is false.

It's not in college textbooks because "Energy gained awareness of its existence" is nothing more than nonsense.

Energy can become matter. Matter can revert to energy. This much is correct. Stating that energy is the same as matter is false.

Energy does not think. Some very specific combinations of matter (atoms, molecules, ... cells) can combine to produce thought.

Wrong. The sun a TV station are matter. The sun and a TV station emit energy. The sun does not emit TV stations.

mat·ter
ˈmadər/
noun
1.
physical substance in general, ... (in physics) that which occupies space and possesses rest mass, especially as distinct from energy.

​

 

Since when is a human not a combination of matter and energy ?

Not sure where you were educated but, this is recognized as fact in all circles but the mentally challenged.

 

I already explained that I used the term "energy" as a simplification. Since you were dwelling on semantics. I then told you to substitute matter/energy = some combination of matter/energy gained awareness.

Energy "IS" thought. Thoughts are not made of matter. Brainwaves are not matter.

Regardless. If you like .. substitute Matter for Energy. The argument holds.

Some configuration of Matter gained awareness of its own existence. That awareness (which was not made of matter) then managed to control energy - and manifest itself into physical reality.