If there always has to be a precedent then how did the precedent get set in the first place. There has to be a first time in order to set a precedent. Freedom does not have to mean free for anyone to come in without restrictions.
Illegals from south of the border have been committing crimes with impunity and by having open borders we have no idea who is freaking coming in. Just because some legally here have radicalized and committed terrorist act does not preclude the possibility others more organized won't come in through the open door.
That is precisely what Freedom is. According to the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Let's put it another way by quoting John Adams, the second president of the United States: "You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; right derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe." These are foundational principles upon which this Republic rests. If you deny them to even ONE person, you then put the government into the Rights granting business and then government gets to decide the limit of all Rights. Your Rights do not exist by virtue of being a citizen. Your Rights exist because your Creator (your God, whomever you deem that to be) bestowed them upon you. That is what that word unalienable is all about. IF we were at war with Mexico, or some country south of there, America could declare war and keep those people from coming here. But, the anti-immigrant lobby is dishonest with you. They call people invaders who are not taking any benefit, Right, or privilege from you. They come here to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. When the relationship is mutual, there is no invasion. It is simply people taking advantage of the free market. Our Constitution does not and cannot limit immigration. It's not a power granted to the government. Government is limited to Naturalization. You simply do not have the authority to tell any one or any state who they can and cannot invite as guests. I don't know what you're trying to accomplish, but the reality is, you cannot take their Rights without taking mine. I'm not forfeiting my Rights - not to you or anyone else. And, unless you can articulate a pretty damn good reason, we probably won't go much further than that with this conversation. So, go ahead now. Attack the foundational principles of this country; swear at the founding fathers and tell us how much we "need" tyranny and oppression.
Were you on drugs when you typed that? Illegal goods are never taxed. Surely you cannot be that ..... then again.... If you legalize drugs they aren't illegal any longer.
Using that screwed up excuse for logic, we should outlaw guns because people get shot; we can outlaw bicycles because people get hurt on them. THINK for a moment: The people from south of the border do not commit criminal acts with impunity (sic.) Hell, it becomes front page news when they do something illegal. Rare is the case where a person from south of the border commits a crime and I challenge to you list all the terrorist acts committed by people from south of the border from 9 / 11 forward and then make a list of the acts of terrorism carried out by the "legal" variety of immigrants that went through all your permit procedures, background checks, etc. I'd be willing to bet that you could tell us the name of every misdemeanor a Hispanic committed in the U.S. and can't tell us who Mir Seddique Mateen is without researching him on the Internet. Yet you allowed (sic) him into the United States. And you're complaining that you have "no idea who is freaking coming in?????" You still think foreign countries that have it in for us are going to honestly tell you who is really coming in? Yeah, I see some leader of a terrorist country telling us who, among its citizenry, is not loyal to him, but to us. I really see that one happening... NOT! Mexicans are not being radicalized. Neither are those from south of there. So, what in the Hell problem is it you are really trying to solve?
I see we will never agree, you are in favor of allowing anyone to just walk in unannounced and I am not. How do we know terrorists haven't already come in through the southern border and just haven't attacked yet? We have no way of knowing.
But if they are secretly selling them now why would they stop? The would continue secretly to avoid the taxes and addicts would continue to buy the cheaper drugs.
How much population would you think is too many? It is possible to overpopulate any country no matter how large it is.
The reason we disagree is that I heard the same B.S. (and even subscribed to it myself) before and the first time I gave it careful consideration was on my birthday in 1991 when the U.S. committed all their forces to Operation Desert Storm (an expansion of Desert Shield.) In 2003 we had all our forces tied up in 2003 with Operation Iraqi Freedom, which necessitated using not only conventional forces, but activating National Guard units and even calling many vets off of police forces to go back into active duty. By then, there wasn't a damn thing to keep terrorists from breaching the southern border. IF your scenario were to be played out, it would have happened then. There is just so much fear mongering that you can subject yourself to before you figure it out: The southern border is pretty well protected. Now, I witnessed a lot of bad legislation worm its way through the legislatures based upon this idiotic paranoia.... so much so that our founding fathers would not recognize America. I'm not forfeiting any more Rights so that you can feel good.
Sir, it is YOUR side trying to overpopulate this country. When are you going to figure that out? It is YOUR side that makes this pretentious argument that you are "for" the current immigration laws. I'm waiting on YOUR side to tell me why they think we need a million new citizens per year. Your entire premise is flawed. Immigration, the flow of people through the United States, engaged in business, is the free market working to serve you. It provides jobs, opportunities, and it creates wealth. Citizenship makes no such guarantee, yet the people on YOUR side fight me every day over this very sticking point. Once a foreigner becomes a citizen, they qualify for welfare, Socialist Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc., etc. whereas today, in spite of the massive lies to the contrary, non-citizens do not qualify for most welfare. With respect to citizenry, we could go another twenty years and not "need" a single foreigner to become a citizen in this country. If people like you could accept the fact that individuals have God given unalienable Rights AND all that pee test, blood test, hair sample, drug test, MVR check, criminal background check, credit check, driver's license, Socialist Surveillance Number ... ooops "Social Security Number," health record check and National ID Card serves no purpose whatsoever - except to jeopardize the Constitution, you'd get past the B.S. and put people back to work in the U.S. and begin limiting the size, power and scope of government - WHICH ARE THE REAL OBJECTIVES OF CONSTITUTIONAL PATRIOTS.
Let me guess, you saw one post out of 288 on this thread and thought this was a referendum? You can stop Naturalization, but Congress has no constitutional authority to impede immigration. We don't need new citizens, but we have no authority to stop people from doing business. Of course, feel free to amend the Constitution.
There is no constitutional authority for a great many laws and statutes. That does not mean that immigration cannot be kept in check with existing laws. Non naturalized citizens have NO constitutional protections.
There is nothing in the constitution that says we have to allow anyone and everyone in the US. If they want life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness they can try to get it in their own country.
There is nothing in the Constitution about immigration at all. The Founding Fathers wanted to set up a place where liberty would attract the best people from all over the world to come here and make their fortunes, making our country rich in the process. It largely worked and has worked ever since. If a bunch of losers back then had suggested that we should keep out newcomers because competition with them was difficult I believe the FF would have horsewhipped them in the street, and I agree we should do that today.
I've read the most silly posts on the Internet, but yours are the silliest. Your religion seems to be a damn wall between the United States and Mexico. Do you care about jobs? Nope. Do you care about Liberty? Apparently not. Do you care about Freedom? What's that? But, I digress. You still think America is some kind of freaking democracy. It isn't. Read Article 4 Section 4 of the Constitution. What Form of Government does it say you are guaranteed? We do not operate on the principle of mob rule (aka democracy.) If this were the 1800s you would be the guy at the head of lynch mobs. And so, your position is very weak. Since the beginning of this country, our founding fathers believed America to be a shining city on a hill (a reference to Matthew 5 : 14 in the Bible.) It is a common theme from the earliest campaign speeches all the way to Ronald Reagan's farewell speech. At that time, the Democrats were pushing the nutty wall idea and Reagan did not let it go unnoticed on his way out the door. He said: "I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still." America was founded as that shining city on a hill, the New Jerusalem spoken of in the Bible... the city without walls (Zechariah 2: 4) and, on that premise, America became the greatest nation in the annals of history. To tamper with a successful formula - for God only knows what purpose is foolish and silly. My personal take is that once people who think like you thought it would be a good idea to force people to become citizens, the unsuccessful melting pot theory has cost us a world of grief. America cannot be all things to all people. At the same time, America became great because, unlike all the other countries of the world, we acknowledged the God given, unalienable Rights of all people. THAT is why we cannot be like China, Mexico or Russia. I used to think I knew what people like you really wanted, but I don't know any more. I can promise you that there will never be a day in your life when all of us are citizens of this country unless we are living in an absolute dictatorship. You cannot reclaim your country nor your culture by trying to be like totalitarian regimes. But, then again, I don't know what your real agenda is.
Many of those applying for visas are extremely tech savvy and can make a huge difference in our industries. Sad that we only punish ourselves. And it is a win win for who want farm jobs, because we need them and they need us to feed their families.
To their credit, the anti-immigrant lobby has backed off some with respect to not trying to snow us with pretexts about jobs. Virtually all non-partisan groups that have weighed this have said that undocumented foreigners pay as much in taxes as they get in services. What they don't tell you is the economic benefits that cannot be accurately counted. For example, undocumented workers produce more at a lower cost. Let me demonstrate how this works out in a real life scenario: You need a home improvement, so you take some bids. A big box company and Bubba the "independent contractor" come along. Both give you bids of $15,000 and $12,000 respectively. Now, you realize that Bubba is saving you a few grand, but has no insurance, isn't bonded and doesn't have a brick and mortar building. IF you go with Bubba, you pay out $12,000 and maybe your home's value goes up $12,000. Bubba goes out and buys a foreign made automobile, shops at Walmart... and the benefit to our nation is negligible. So what do you do? A Mexican guy comes along and offers to do the job for $8,000. Now, let's see what happens: Your home increases in value. YOUR equity goes up by an additional $4,000 over what you could have gotten with Bubba. But, it doesn't stop there. America operates under what is called fractional reserve banking. Under this scheme, banks can loan out FOUR TIMES the amount of money that they hold in assets. So, the bank can now loan out that additional equity you have for a total of $16,000 for companies to expand, homes to be built, etc. Now, along come the anti-immigrants claiming we're slavers. But, the Mexican guy pays his workers $25 an hour. Our own people don't want these jobs. How do I know? I've offered them up on a regular basis. The same people who will turn those jobs down will work for a restaurant for $8 an hour just to have something to complain about and someone to hate.
How? I don't mean comprehensively but how are we any different now such that we need to have closed borders? Re-read the Resister's post and pay particular attention to the Reagan quote. The Great Communicator says what I wanted to say and a WHOLE lot better than I'll ever be able to. (As conservative as he was, I always really liked him, and quotes like that are one reason why)
Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence. This also means we have the ability to close off the borders to prevent against invasion. Invasion can come in many different forms and is not limited only to an armed incursion on our soil.
