Most all your ideas are good but unless someone's can actually drain the swamp in DC none of it would get passed. Some of the ideas I really liked and would support them in lieu of a wall but unfortunately I doubt congress will even see any of them let alone pass them so it looks like the wall is still in the running.
Actually I do since I am a voter and have a voice in what policies we have. This is our country and our culture and our economy and we do have a say as to what goes on, thats the whole point in a democracy. You have no evidence that a foreigner has been given a right by God to American soil. Prove this. We should be training our own people but we should be bringing in the best around the world, the hardest working, the smartest, people with the best values, the most skilled because I want our country to be the best. The reality is that we can't have unlimited immigration because the US is only 4% of the world population and if we let everyone who wanted to come here in, we would quickly become over-populated, and full of poor people using our welfare programs and this would destroy these programs. We would also cease to be America as we know it and would be whatever hispanic, asian, Africans, and other cultures that would flood in. We are the greatest country because we have the best people and the best values and that would be destroyed with unlimited immigration.
But, you still have a problem: The wall will not get built without concessions. One concession is a path for citizenship. And yes, we did offer it in the past; however, not many took advantage of it. This time they will, fearing that returning won't be so easy. That being said you will be the minority in future elections and they will exact a measure of revenge. If you think what I'm saying is a good idea, you begin with local legislators and party bosses. You tell them about it. You tell others so that those in higher positions get the message. You'd better think this through: A pathway to citizenship could add ten million potential voters to the rolls and every one of them has a reason to be whizzed off at you.
1) You don't understand. We are not a democracy. We are a REPUBLIC. See Article 4 Section 4 of the Constitution. That is why WE have a voice in the future of our country AND ONE of the differences is that your vote don't count in deciding another person's unalienable Rights. That, sir is one of the hallmarks of our form of government 2) You wrote: "You have no evidence that a foreigner has been given a right by God to American soil. Prove this." I already have - MANY times on this thread. You're too lazy to read. A major foundational principle goes like this: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." (an excerpt from the Declaration of Independence) That could not apply to citizens only as there were no citizens. AND our forefathers acknowledged the rights of immigrants. Rather than keep beating a dead horse, the evidence you seek is in the following responses on this thread: Posts #205 and # 207 Page 11 Post 250 on page 13 Post # 279 on page 14 Post # 295 on page 15 Posts # 320 and 309 on Page 16 It is been provided 3) In a Republic it is not your decision as to who has unalienable Rights. People do not come here to fill your need 4) If you bothered to read this thread, NOBODY is arguing with you about the basics. The problem is, you did not read the thread and cannot understand the conversation. I've already told the people on the anti-immigrant side WHY their proposed solutions will lead to a predominantly Hispanic U.S. You have the same problem they do. The Constitution of the United States does not address the migration of people. There is NOTHING in the Constitution regarding immigration. The only constitutional authority Congress has is to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization (See Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution.) Naturalization = citizenship. Immigration, in this context, means the migration of people, especially those engaged in lawful pursuits like taking advantage of opportunities willingly offered. Just because someone comes to the U.S. and works a job in no way, shape, fashion or form indicates that they are a citizen or should be one. They should not be entitled to any benefit, immunity or privilege as guaranteed to citizens, but neither can you deny to them their God given unalienable Rights without screwing yourself out of the same Rights. It's all explained to you in the previous listing of posts.
But I can still vote some a politician who can decide what immigration policies are so I actually do have a voice on who comes in. Wow, just wow, all that for nothing. You can't even provide me with a single quote from the founding fathers saying that all men in the world have the rights to live in America. You also presented no evidence that there is a God and that he as endowed us with rights. Epic fail.
I thought you wanted a serious conversation. You want to troll this thread and post idiocy. Your first paragraph makes no sense in English and we are not governed by policy. You told an absolute lie in saying that I didn't provide a single quote from the founding fathers, but seemed not to understand that the founding fathers signed a document about foundational principles that proved exactly what I said. Lastly, you can get your boxers out of a bunch, open your eyes and try not making smart a** comments about God. You know full well I presented that where even the heathen couldn't be offended. You should read the thread or refrain from making silly statements that question your IQ.
Personally I don't care who is whizzed off at me but I don't think anything will be done either way. I would like to close the border somehow and offer more temporary work visas in some way with the requirement that they return home after it is over.
I get it. After all this discussion, you have yet to read the Constitution and find that what you want cannot, constitutionally speaking, be done. If you employed the plan I offered, foreigners could come here, but finding no opportunities, they would leave. Liberty is not a temporary condition and I will repeat my major theme: You have to decide whether man gets his Rights from his Creator (his God, whomever he deems that to be) OR does government dole out Rights? I don't think any Creator (even that atheist's big bang theory) intended that only Americans have unalienable Rights. I want to tell you about an experience I had and let you chew on it before writing this subject off: When I was a kid, I left home and went to Sevierville, Tennessee where I had a lot of relatives. There were Help Wanted signs all over town and I couldn't get a job. I applied at Cherokee Textile Mills there on several occasions. I never got past the receptionist. So, one night I relate all this to an uncle. My uncle told me to reapply at Cherokee Textile Mills and tell the receptionist that your uncle, and mention the name, said I should stop by. Within fifteen minutes we were discussing my salary and schedule. My thinking is if employers have a choice and can save on taxes PLUS not be tied to having to provide jobs to any specific segment of society, they will hire from the neighborhood and what you want is most likely. On average, our immigration policies change every four years. We keep asking for more and more government. Where are the demographics under government control leading you?
Thread title- Open borders or not? --------------------------------------------------- Let 'em in, what could possibly go wrong?.. Oh wait.. http://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/wildfires Boston marathon [Koran 9.123]- "O you who believe! fight those of the infidels who are near to you and let them find in you hardness" [Koran 5.51]- "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends.."
There is NOTHING like trolling to derail a thread. Thanks for nothing. Had Trump been serious, there is nothing he could do to fulfill his promise of keeping Muslims out short of calling for a declaration of war until the threat of Islamic terrorists has been militarily defeated. That has relatively little to do with this thread since Muslims come in vial planes and NOT over the southern border. Now go away if you aren't going to participate in this thread.
the thread title is 'Open borders or not?' and I was participating by pointing out that allowing unlimited immigration is as crazy as a hound dog inviting fleas to come crawl around on its back.. PS- I see in your profile that you're into "survival, prepping, civilian militia", so surely it's a survival issue about who should be let into your country?
Again, if you READ the Constitution, Congress has no authority in immigration. This is not a democracy. So, a popularity vote is meaningless. Congress is limited to Naturalization. Naturalization = citizenship. I'm already on record, sir. I believe we should severely limit the number of people we accept as citizens. There is not a thing in this world you or anybody else can do to limit the coming and going of immigrants as it a states rights issue and some states will always be more liberal in who they invite in as guests. The only thing you can do is increase the size, power and scope of government so that when the political pendulum swings the other way, all that technology and manpower is used against YOU. Immigration policies have changed every four years on average in the U.S. We even rounded up and deported all those from south of the border once and our unemployment rate doubled in less than five years because Americans don't understand the economics of their own country. I gave you a comprehensive plan that would affect the situation permanently. If you want to criticize people, the least you can do is know what in the Hell you're criticizing. Do what I did; read the thread. Too lazy to read? See these posts: Post # 205 page 11 Post # 250 page 13 Post # 279 page 14 Post # 295 page 15 Posts # 302 and 309 page 16 Post # 322 on this page Get back to us when you get up to speed.
Yes I agree with severe limits mate, so what are we arguing about?. PS- I'm a survivalist myself which is why I'm very picky about who should be let into the country; it's not rocket science that we don't want muslims and mexican bad hombres, and I'm sure the Founding Fathers would agree with me that closing the borders is a simple matter of self defence. As a militiaman yourself, surely you agree with what this militiaman said?-
The defense of a country does not lend itself to waging war against the Liberties of my fellow man. It does not lend itself to telling individual states who they may or may not allow in their country as guests. You obviously don't have a damn clue as to what this country is about. You won't even bother to read the thread. And you're trying to interject a notion about the founding fathers laced with false presuppositions (that were addressed in the quoted posts earlier) and only shows the insincere chicanery by which you approach this subject. It's not up to you nor the masses as to who is allowed to come into the country, ONLY who gets to be a citizen. Our Constitution says NOTHING about who gets to come and go. Fact is, despite the Naturalization Act of 1790, which allowed only whites to be citizens, people poured in from every country on the globe. They took advantage of opportunities willingly offered - and will continue to do so wall or no wall (except that Trump settled for the same wall Hitlery did back in 2006) What you're trying to hide is the fact that you want a POLICE STATE with no constitutional guarantees under the guise of exercising a power the Constitution does not grant you. You should at least read the quoted posts and get up to speed.
1- If your "fellow man" has terrorist and criminal tendencies like many immigrants do, I don't give a rat's ass about their "liberty" to enter a country.. 2- I see you have an interest in the law, no offence but that could explain why some of your posts are like longwinded legal journalese, far too complicated for poor slobs like me to understand. My own style is to say things briefly and straight to the point..
Maybe you should lend your reading skills to Twitter. The anti-immigrant lobby, like you, makes much ado about terrorism and then says they are for "enforcing the immigration laws." They run like scalded dogs when you press them on all the laws they passed only to wind up with "legal" immigrants like the Boston Marathon Bombers or Seddique Mir Mateen. If your lobbying efforts do not keep out criminals, you don't like reading, and you cannot change that perhaps you should sit on the sidelines. Those who don't read have no advantage over those who will not read.
"Legal" or "illegal" immigrants are the same in my book mate, we don't want either sort if they're godless heathens and bad hombres. I share the Lone Eagle's view..-
I commend you on your commitment and your consistency. My problem is, and always has been, those who make a big production about being "for" the immigration laws and wanting them enforced when it is the legal variety of immigrants who are committing acts of terrorism and teaching their children to hate this country and destroy its people. The anti-immigrant lobby is sorely mistaken, however, if they think they can train, equip, supply, and fund a POLICE STATE and think that will not be turned against them. Those who claim to be fiscally conservative / socially liberal are a threat to themselves and this country more so than the most flaming left wing liberal on the face of this earth. You already have a Constitution Free Zone and a sizable portion of America that sees the white people as being the enemy. What kind of strategy are the white people relying that justifies financing their own destruction. America already has more people in prison than any country on this planet. I think you would be better served to spend your efforts slowing the number of new citizens we naturalize each year (about a million.) You should work to cut that in half. You should support my efforts to rehabilitate people in prison and send them back into the workforce as citizens (with full CITIZENSHIP.) What you should not do, and I will fight against it, is to increase the size, power and scope of government. Anything that strengthens government, weakens the individual. America was founded on the concept of open borders (sic) as they call it and you do not have to hem yourself in, be ruled by people that disagree with you, and destroy America's destiny with a false hope that has never been a permanent fix in the history of mankind.
Hahaha! The babbling excuses of those who support open borders is laughable. Open borders is a dumb idea.
People posting easily disprovable beliefs such as yours is a dumber idea - unless you're a glutton for punishment. NOBODY is making excuses - only pointing out realities that you fail to acknowledge... for a good reason. You support the POLICE STATE.
NOBODY gets rich off of anything I do. If you had an IQ larger than your shoe size, my list of solutions would bear that out. But, let's face it. You're not going to read the thread. Maybe can't read it would be more appropriate.
Wrong. There is no doubt there are people getting rich off open borders. That is why they have people shill for them in order to spread thier propaganda.
And who do you shill for? You preach a doctrine of paranoia and hate; stupidity and ignorance. You get on the board and make allegations without substantiation. And who feeds you this hate? Perhaps you get your news from Fox News - you know that station that is owned and controlled by Rupert Murdoch, the Board of Director member for the Council on Foreign Relations AND good friend of Donald Trump. Do you get paid to shill for them? Maybe you get all your talking points from one of those white supremacist non-profits financed by John Tanton... Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) Federation for American Immigration Reform), (FAIR), NumbersUSA, etc. Are you a shill for the organizations that provide the talking points for Stormfront, the nazis, and David Duke (former KKK leader)??? Who do YOU shill for? Who do you rely on to feed you the horsesh!+ you spew? How many murderers, federal informants, white supremacists and agents for the NEW WORLD ORDER do you shake hands with every day? Who do you shill for? A guy on your side told me, in another thread, that it takes one to know one. Inquiring minds want to know. Who do you work for? You come here with a message that would make Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot pale by comparison. You spit on the Constitution of this country; run down the foundational principles upon which this nation was founded, jeopardize the Rights of ALL Americans and pretend that you are above the rest of humanity. You stand behind racism, genocide and the denial of God given Rights to your fellow human beings. So, who is it YOU shill for? Pal, I'm just a guy that offers gigs to people that want to work. The good ol' Americans that don't want to work for $25 an hour because welfare is easier are praising you for promoting their brand of idiocy. You, like them, don't want to work. You live off welfare, sleep in mommy's basement and spend most of your time playing computer games and visiting discussion boards that, apparently, pay you to post idiotic crap that you couldn't sell to a jacka** with autism. If you aren't getting paid, what I would call you would get censored out, but your sh!+ can only appeal to the lowest forms of human life. So, I will ask you again, who do you shill for?
I shill for common sense that is why I do not need to use worn out talking points or emotional arguments. Open borders is a stupid idea and most folks know it.
