You have the distinction of being one of the most dishonest people that has ever posted here. Let's help you out: "An encroachment upon the rights of another; the incursion of an army for conquest or plunder."Webster. See jEtna Ins. Co. v. Boon, 95 U. S. 129, 24 L. Ed. 395. http://thelawdictionary.org/invasion/ The law says an invasion must consist of an encroachment upon your rights. And the fact is you can hate people all day long, but YOU cannot deprive me nor your fellow Americans - and not even the undocumented foreigner of THEIR Rights. You have ignored the Rights of your fellow man; advocated a position inconsistent with that of the founding fathers; advanced a hater filled theory that is counterproductive to our destiny; been proven wrong at every turn. You may have the power to build a wall, but you lack the authority. I know you're in a rush to give your King all this unconstitutional power, but one day you will have to face the costs - and we aren't talking the cost in dollars and cents. We're talking about the precedent you want to set with turning a free nation into the world's POLICE STATE - and all without any justification whatsoever.
Guest Workers are not part of the population because I have consistently told you we don't need any more citizens. Guests come and go dependent upon one thing and one thing only: Supply and Demand. Guest Workers are not a part of the population since they don't vote, draw from welfare, and are prohibited from getting on the dole (Socialist Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.) Get the citizenry out of jails and prisons, off of legal and illegal drugs, off the welfare dole. Put them to work. Then, quit worrying about what other people do. Clean up your back yard.
They are part of the population simply by being here. They do get on welfare and their kids attend our schools. They generally don't have drivers licenses and are not prosecuted for accidents they cause.
You stated before that states can allow anyone in if they choose to but then the reverse should be true as well, states would have the right to keep anyone out that they choose to. If the border states decided to stop allowing people through then that should be their right.
Where are you gonna put them to work at, doing what? Don't know if you have been paying attention, but in a consumption based economy, which is what we have, if you do not employ your own people making what is consumed, and providing services which are consumed, there will never be enough jobs to go around. And the jobs many will have to do are non living wage, part time jobs that have to be subsidized by taxpayers or the workers would starve. That is our new business model. Pay starvation wages to max out profits, making the top dogs very happy, and then subsidize these owners by using taxes and borrowed money to allow these business models to remain viable. You know, it took some really highly educated nitwits, to think a consumption based economy could cheat and use foreign slave labor, to max out owner profits, without society eventually imploding and a violent revolution ensuing. We used to see our economy as the device that provided needed resources for the survival of our non elite citizens. Our economy housed, clothed, and fed our people. And we kinda devised the rules of the game to do just that. Now? Oh, our economy is only devised to max out profits at the top, which means sending jobs to slave labor, when we seldom had enough jobs to go around in the first place. These nitwits, convinced other nitwits, that you will employ more americans, with higher wages, if you offshore a huge chunk of middle class production jobs. This is nonsense and yet it seemed perfectly rational to the nitwits. Perot warned the nitwits of a giant sucking sound. But hey, this created an even greater disparity in income and wealth, than even the gilded age, so the intent of globalization, using slave wages to enrich the few to the max, worked out just as it had been planned.
You would be downright funny if your post wasn't the epitome of silliness. There are plenty of jobs at good wages in the United States. If you READ these threads, you see people condemning me for not paying a surgeons wages to guys with less than a high school diploma. A good handyman with six to nine months experience can make $25 an hour and if he chooses to work only 40 hours a week, five days a week AND take off a month each year for vacations and holidays, he still makes $48 grand a year. All he needs are a few hand tools and pick-up truck. There are jobs here for plumbers, mechanics, and anything you can name in the health care field. The real deal is, Americans don't want to work. The same people claiming that there are no good jobs in America are happy to let our college and technical schools be occupied by foreigners because they are, after all "legal." The anti-immigrant lobby demands a bigger and more intrusive government on one hand while complaining about a lack of good paying jobs - and they are willing to forfeit their Liberty just to keep some third worlder from working a minimum wage job while allowing a million new citizens into the U.S. on this pretentious and equally specious claim that we "need" them.
I have NO argument with that, IF you live in a totalitarian POLICE STATE. But, at the end of the day, it is a states rights issue. In our Constitution, Congress is limited to the act of "establishing an uniform Rule of Naturalization." WHEN individuals living along the border wanted to keep foreigners out, the federal government said that by stopping foreigners attempting to trespass over private property, it violated the foreigners civil rights: https://www.splcenter.org/seeking-justice/case-docket/leiva-v-ranch-rescue http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/DANGEROUS-BORDER-Militias-round-up-illegal-2770971.php The people on YOUR side of the political aisle threw in the towel and refused to mount an appeal. So, let me spell it out for you: The courts ruled that the undocumented foreigner has civil rights - and NOT just any rights, but civil rights that trump private property Rights of Americans. That is YOUR fault. That is what YOUR side cost their own movement (for lack of a more descriptive adjective.) I realize that you can't come to grips with this, but the courts have ruled that undocumented immigrants have constitutional rights. Complaining to me, arguing about it and trying to be obstinate will in no way, shape, fashion or form change the bottom line. Let's put this in the simplest language possible: Either your unalienable Rights are really that (i.e. given by a Creator, your God - whomever you deem that to be are are above the law) or they are not. The counter argument against unalienable Rights is that government grants Rights. Do you believe that? If you do, you must accept the premise that the government can outlaw your weapons, tell you which church you can and cannot belong to, whether or not you can criticize the government and even what states YOU can visit or be barred from. The same unalienable Rights that apply to you apply to the undocumented immigrant. It's up to you which of these presuppositions you subscribe to. In the founding fathers minds, it was unequivocally clear. Unalienable Rights existed before the Declaration of Independence before the Articles of Confederation; before the Constitution. The fact is, before people like those influencing you came along, the courts used to rule on this in the following manner: "The right of a citizen to bear arms, in lawful defense of himself or the State, is absolute. He does not derive it from the State government. It is one of the "high powers" delegated directly to the citizen, and `is excepted out of the general powers of government.' A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the lawmaking power." Cockrum v. State, 24 Tex. 394, at 401-402 (1859) Notice that there are high powers that transcend the government's authority. In the instant case, the court ruled that laws cannot be passed to infringe the Second Amendment guarantee AND that decision would apply to the entire Bill of Rights. Are we straight there? Do you disagree? Of course you disagree. The courts said these Rights apply to citizens. That was in 1859. Fast forward to 1868. Congress illegally ratified the 14th Amendment. I will contend and back up the contention with opinions from judges, legal scholars, and historians that I'm right, but the 14th Amendment is the law. Now, let us take a look at it: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." There are two terms there. Those terms are citizens and persons. Citizens have the advantage of privileges and immunities. ALL PERSONS are guaranteed life, liberty, property, due process, and the equal protection of the laws. Life and Liberty are unalienable Rights. Sir, if you demand that the government take the liberty of one person and make it subservient to government then unalienable Rights do not exist. That means that, in the future, YOU may not have a Right to keep and bear Arms, YOU may not have a Right to speak freely, YOU may not have the Right to choose your religion, YOU may not have the Right to Due Process. In many cases, through gross ignorance some of that is happening. And I have to tell you, I work hard to fight the precedents that guys like you set every day. What you're doing to this country are things the left cannot do without opposition. But, you are rushing this country forward into that NEW WORLD ORDER. And now the B.S. stops. Yoyu have to decide: IF the government is your God, pledge fealty to it and accept the costs that are inevitable. IF you can say that Rights are not subject to whether or not the government "allows" it, then fight for Freedom and Liberty. Know this: if you just want to drag the undocumented immigrants down, a former slave wants a word with you: "No man can put a chain about the ankle of his fellow man without at last finding the other end fastened around his own neck." Frederic Douglass You cannot take the liberties of the undocumented immigrant without sacrificing your own.
Silly people say silly things. You have borders. BFD. Now quit thinking this is a poll, read the thread and forget about the referendum.
B.S. They do not qualify for welfare and they attend schools because the politicians YOU vote for said that people have a Right to an education. They might not have driver's licenses, but many (about 75 percent) have an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the same taxes that you do. They commit fewer crimes than Americans, that I assure you. Check the jails and prisons. They are held accountable - same as you. Disagree with me. I have even more...
I think we should only let in educated people with great skills. The problem with open borders is that the worst come in and we see a lot of poor people who stretch our welfare programs, the ignorant who don't share our views, and the skillless who take away jobs from poor Americans and don't contribute. Just compare the Mexican immigration to Chinese immigration. The Mexican immigrants tend to have high crime rates, high poverty, and less respect for education or our views, there are lots of exceptions of course. The chinese immigrants tend to be highly educated, skilled, peaceful, and rational.
Absolute and utter B.S. showing that you should read the thread. 1) It is not up to you to decide who gets to come in 2) Other human beings don't come here based solely upon your need 3) Unless people become citizens, they do not stretch our welfare programs. Undocumented immigrants don't qualify and you would have on Hell of a case proving that foreign born are draining our resources 4) Mexicans have a lower crime rate per capita than Americans 5) The skillless (sic) don't take jobs away because they weren't your jobs in the first place. You guys don't seem to understand that we aren't a socialist country yet 6) EVERY major nonpartisan study concludes that the Mexican immigrants pay as much into the system as they receive in benefits... plus they are more productive than the average American. You should be ashamed of yourself telling us that Americans lack skills and the only jobs they qualify for are minimum wage jobs. Well, that may apply to you and those you appeal to, but dude - really... we paid to have you educated and all you qualify for is minimum wage? At least many are proving they have no reasoning skills on this one. Now we know why. Buy you books and send you to school and all you guys want to do is eat the teachers. It's insanity.
What you don't get is that this is our country so we do get to choose who comes in. We have a skills shortage in our country and too many without skills so why are we importing so many without skills? It makes no sense at all? Why not steal talent instead of paying for the world's poor?
What you don't get is that you don't have the final say. That's part number one. What you don't get is NO you absolutely cannot deny other people THEIR God given unalienable Rights without jeopardizing your own. I don't believe in stealing; I believe in training the people we have in the U.S. to meet the challenges of today and the future.
Really? You asked for it. For every shortcoming in YOUR life, you seem to be blaming people from south of the border. The American taxpayers spend good money to send you to school so you could peck a keyboard and fret because you can't get a minimum wage job. Maybe you'd be well advised to turn off your computer, get off your a** and go find a job. The anti-immigrant lobby, even as they dismantle the Constitution, bi+ch and moan; cry and complain, but nothing satisfies them. You yap endlessly about minimum wage jobs, but you're too busy scapegoating the Mexicans to see that it is YOU that is the problem. You try this song and dance with the false allegation that those people are getting welfare AFTER you screwed the pooch by claiming that the National ID / REAL ID Act, E--Verify system was going to prevent welfare fraud that you claim is going on. So, what the Hell happened? You trashed the Fourth Amendment with a false promise OR the problem is really nonexistent today? The Tea Party Republicans have lobbied for, and the politicians identifying with them have given us: The so - called "Patriot Act" National ID / REAL ID Act E Verify the National Defense Authorization Act Creation of the Dept. of Homeland (IN) Security Warrant less searches Womb to the tomb surveillance The Constitution Free Zone (that area where the Constitution does not apply even to YOU) Gun control The perpetuation of the 16th Amendment after your fellow patriots were on the verge of having it defeated and the income tax abolished (part of the "need" to have SSN based ID) You've been responsible for trashing the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th Amendments. While you have wailed about how much money Barack Obama spent, it was the Republicans asking for the bulk of the money. Fact is the money you've screwed the American people out of since 9 / 11 over this immigration issue now totals in the TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS. Despite all the legislation, despite all the money blown, and despite the B.S. that we "needed" it, YOUR side's contention is that their problem is no better today than when they spent all that money to correct it. And, as if all that isn't enough, the money YOUR side claimed was going to be saved never produced a damn thing except a reduction in our Liberties and MORE GOVERNMENT! Your side has already hoodwinked the public out of many many times more money than they claimed the undocumented immigrants cost. WTH dude? Then, as if all that were not enough, if you look carefully, there aren't any of your kind around from the 1990s and early 2000s. And the reason is, most were either put in jails and prisons and / or murdered by the feds - except for the few they flipped to work for them. In short the fruits of your labor suck. Adding insult to injury IT WAS LEGISLATION (LIKE THE ABOVE LIST) INTRODUCED AND PROMOTED BY ANTI-IMMIGRANT TEA PARTY REPUBLICANS THAT VICTIMIZED THE BULK OF THOSE PEOPLE!!I!! And to think that the mental midgetry of the anti-immigrant lobby does not understand that, in 2003, when they refused sound counsel from their own legal teams, they set in motion a series of events that put them in the camp with globalists, declaring war on our Republic and trying to blame liberals for the clusterphuck they created. Gloat all you like, but the bottom line is while you think you're getting away with screwing your fellow man, the political pendulum will swing back the other way and the left WILL extract an equal measure of vengeance. I'm whizzed because it will be MY Rights that are on the chopping block - the same Rights you see fit to take a dump over because you're blind, self centered, and ignorant... ignorant of the law, ignorant of history, ignorant of economics, and so self absorbed that it never dawned on you to ask someone who was in the battle before you were a gleam in their daddy's eyes what lessons we learned over the last several decades.
Well I worked my entire life and am now retired so I might have been around before you were a gleam in your daddy's eye. I worked at jobs of all kinds at more than minimum wage and for the last years was self employed earning well over minimum wage. In my 66 years I have seen so many things and have paid attention to the world around me. Most of which your are saying is subjective and have differing opinions. I am not a child living in mother's basement and I don't appreciate being treated like one. You do appear to have university education, some of which I have also, even though the brain washing didn't take effect on me.
Brainwashing didn't work on me and you seem to have serious critical thinking skills. The liberals have had NO effect on me as they have the people in your generation and mine. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the left DID get to you. You see, over the last nearly four decades, I didn't change. The right did and the right took up the cause of the globalists, just as you have. The real problem in America is not people from south of the border. It is the insane belief that we can stop the migration of people from one place to another. It's bass ackwards thinking and the epitome of naivety to think that you solve our problems by increasing the size, power and scope of government as my previous posts shows. So, the big question is, how do we protect America? WHEN the right threw in the towel (around 2003) and started looking for a government solution, they destroyed the work and turned back the clock on all the accomplishments made by the patriot movement during the previous twenty five years before their capitulation. We had fought the battles against National ID, the womb to the tomb surveillance, and eminent domain abuses. We literally had the war won against the income tax and the repeal of the 16th Amendment was imminent. The two basic reasons we have a lot of foreigners here are primarily twofold: 1) You have too many taxes and too much regulation. You cannot tell the employer who to hire, how many, nor of which race, gender, sexual persuasion, religion, or political belief. The American people have priced themselves out of the job market 2) Your commitment to National ID / REAL ID Act / E Verify ended up condemning an entire generation as the unlimited amounts of information available to anybody and everybody about you is unnecessary AND it leads to abuses. Today employers can refuse to give you a job based upon these endless background checks. I had to ask myself one of two things: Do I want a job OR do I want to punish others and blame them for my shortcomings? If we had repealed the 16th Amendment (even with the Fair Tax) it would have given the American worker a 35 percent pay increase. IF we had not only kept our wins against National ID and expanded privacy rights further, it would have gotten more Americans into the workforce. MILLIONS today are not welcome in the workforce due to old criminal records. It's delusional to believe that just because you send someone to another country that whatever job they worked will still be open. If the government would get out of this heavy regulation mode, employers would hire the people who live in their neighborhood. I would almost have to write a book to explain it, but everything you've said you are for is exactly what the Dems were for in the 1990s. I know everybody wails about the promise of shutting down the border; however, in 1981 the unemployment rate went from highs in the upper 7 percent to as high as 10 percent in 1982 AND it was still over 7 percent when the U.S. began giving amnesties to undocumented foreigners in 1986. Then with seven amnesties between 1986 and 2000 we cut the rate of unemployment down to 3.8 percent without a militarized border and a POLICE STATE. We can do it again without increasing the size, power and scope of government.
Everything under this was what happened in the past, what needs to be concentrated on is what do we do now? If millions upon millions more are allowed in where do they live, there is a shortage of inexpensive housing available in most areas and if undocumented people take them then where do Americans on fixed income live? Then what about healthcare for those millions upon millions of undocumented people, who pays for it? There are many other issues their being here would create but we can look at those 2 first.
the Founders needed people to occupy the large area of the continent. It was that same need that they fed during westward expansion by having what amounts to open borders. We do not have that need.
Part of winning any political battle is knowing what your enemies are going to do before the fight begins. So, first off, I want you to remember something: the political pendulum swings back and forth and one day the liberals will be in control once again. Given that, you have to remember that we limit the number of people that can travel through America and we never focus on the million new citizens we naturalize each year. As if that isn't enough, in order to sell any border wall, the Democrats (actually the American people) are going to demand a path to citizenship for those already here. How many of the 11 million undocumented immigrants will then choose citizenship? During the seven amnesty periods they were sure they could still come and go without too much trouble. Now, you're creating an enemy AND an enemy that can do substantial harm to you. In the last election you lost at the polls. More people voted for Hitlery than for Trump. Trump got more electoral votes. That is why the Ds want to move toward democratic voting. Anyway, you cannot make the deal you will have to settle for and think a wall will protect you. Gain a wall, lose the country. What do we do? Instead of a wall, you incentivize employers to hire Americans. How do you do that? You kick the foundations out from under the left and leave them with nothing to complain about and then fix the problem. Here is how it's done: 1) Abolish any law on the books that does not "allow" people to come in as guests. Allow employers to hire whomever they want (no more quotas for anyone - white, black, man, woman, undocumented, documented, gay, straight, NOBODY gets preferential treatment.) The employer is in full control 2) Current tax rates for business are about 39 percent. Leave it in place and offer these high end incentives: A) Give a tax incentive to employers to take Americans off the welfare dole, unemployment line and / or provide opportunities for the handicapped B) Give a special tax break for employers that hire an all American work-force C) Give another tax incentive for the employer to bring jobs back to the United States D) Provide a final tax break for employers that pay 15 percent or more above poverty level as their entry level wage (i.e. if the minimum wage is $8 a company would have to start employees at $9.20 to qualify) Employers can then either pay Americans decent wages and very low taxes or have el cheapo labor. If the employer is in business to expand profits, he'll take the obvious path 3) Legalize pot. This is inevitable. Then allow the drugs to come across the border legally. Mexico taxes drugs as they leave Mexico and we tax it coming in. We make a deal with Mexico to provide border patrol agents, doubling the number of agents on the border at no cost to the United States 4) Reactivate citizen militias and allow them to protect private property at the owners behest. Pass laws that allow people to use deadly force, if necessary to prevent trespassing 5) Begin PROJECT SECOND CHANCE? What is Project Second Chance? Well, it's a little prison reform idea I have that would require prisoners to work on their rehabilitation. On the day that people go into prison, there would be no tv, radio, coffee, cigarettes, sodas, candy, ice cream or other non-essential luxuries. You would even take tattoos off prisoners and not allow any more during their incarceration. Then you allow the prisoner to determine their sentence. While in prison, a prisoner can cut a quarter of their sentence off by getting a GED. If they have an education AND transferable job skills, they would earn this time off by volunteering to teach classes in prison. In addition there would be a required set of classes that teach balancing a checkbook, planning a budget, job hunting and interviewing skills, housekeeping and interpersonal skills. Classes could also be offered in transferable skill sets, taught by volunteers and prisoners working to reduce their sentences. A prisoner with an eight year sentence could leave in two years with a GED, some job skills and life skills that can keep them out of prison. I have a lot more to this program, but you get the idea 6) Eliminate background checks involving witch hunts. An employer that looks after children has a legitimate reason to conduct a background check; operating a forklift in a warehouse, not so much. We have to put Americans to work, not dismantle the Fourth Amendment 7) REPEAL National ID / REAL ID Act and E-Verify which will allow us to REPEAL the income tax and the 16th Amendment 9) Abolish the federal Dept. of Education and even if takes a constitutional amendment; a free education must be limited to citizens only There it is. Problem solved. Move forward. Small edit - Spend the same money you wanted to waste hounding the foreigners and put it toward helping those on low incomes and those without health coverage.
Tell us the name of one, single, solitary founding father that said Liberty was based upon the "need" of our society. Your entire premise is flawed. People do not come to the United States based upon any need of our citizenry. They owe you nothing
You're making up both sides of this argument, I didn't say anything remotely like that. I said the country had open borders because it served the purpose of spreading westward.
But, I contend that open borders are what the founding fathers wanted because they were used to being contained themselves. They said that Liberty is an unalienable Right at a time when there were no citizens. It does not stand to reason that they would then limit a person's liberty based upon some misguided notion of need. If I am misrepresenting your position, I'm sorry. Maybe I don't understand it.
