Open carry is catching on

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by sawyer, Oct 6, 2017.

  1. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    A pack of hungry wolves,
    As man is not a wolf's proper prey.

    Wolves are more dangerous than bears as bears are not predators and are omnivours, a bear may eat meat, a wolf is specifically a carnivour, a hunter, and seeks and hunts prey.

    When a bear attacks people, it is unusual.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  2. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Just a handful in the last 117 years. It's not a real issue. Wolves are not as dangerous to man as bears.
     
  3. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Yet, wolves have killed only ten people in North America since 1900. Black bears have killed nine people in North America since 2010. Brown bears (including grizzlies) have killed 11 people North America since 2010. Wolves are almost no threat to humans in comparison to bears.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks_in_North_America
     
  4. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Bears do not seek to attack people as people unless they get between a mother bear and her cubs or are seen as a threat.
    Bears eat other stuff and leave people be unless there are unusual or other reasons.
     
  5. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Theoretically yes, but bears are much more likely to kill you in real life. There have been only ten fatalities by wolves in North America in the past 117 years. There have been 9 fatalities by black bears in the last 7 years, and 11 fatalities by brown bears in the last 7 years.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks_in_North_America
     
  6. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Regardless, bears are much more likely to kill you than wolves. Wolves have only killed ten people in North America in the last 117 years. Brown bears (including grizzly bears) have killed 11 people in the last 7 years. Black bears have killed 9 people in the last 7 years. Bears are at least ten times as likely to kill you as are wolves. Not saying that I would feel safe if I were unarmed in a wilderness with a pack of wolves howling around me, but I'd feel even less safe with a bear around.
     
  7. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    If and when a bear attacks, the sheer weight advantage is enough to kill you.

    Bears are not out to eat people.

    Get between a bear and it's food.... Well...

    When a wolf attacks you, eating you is more than likely to be the real reason.

    I am sure the number of bear attacks are due to wolves run off if they smell humans, bears do not and confrontations with bears are more likely as humans invade a bears natural habitat and cave dewllings.
     
  8. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Regardless, bears are the bigger thing to worry about in the outdoors than wolves. As you said, wolves tend to run away.


    That, and bears are more likely to get conditioned that humans are related to food. We don't hear about backpackers having to "wolf bag" their food. They do have to "bear bag" their food.
     
  9. sawyer

    sawyer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There has been many cases of predation by bears on people but cub protection is the primary cause. Second is coming on a bear feeding on a carcass.
     
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  10. sawyer

    sawyer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was under the impression that there's been no documented wolf kills in North America ever. What's your source on this?
     
  11. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    List of wolf attacks in North America
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    There are few documented wolf attacks on humans in North America in comparison to Eurasia and other larger carnivores.




    Fatal attacks[edit]
    There have been fatal wolf attacks on humans in North America:

    This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.
    Victim(s) Age Gender Date Type of attack Location Details Source(s)
    Candice Berner 32 female 8 March 2010 Predatory Chignik, Alaska, US, 75 miles southwest of Kodiak Berner, a teacher and avid jogger, was discovered dead along a road by snowmobilers, who found wolf tracks in the adjacent snow. The Alaska State Medical Examiner ruled that her death was caused by "multiple injuries due to animal mauling." A series of necropsies performed on wolves culled in the surrounding area shortly after the attack ruled out rabies, sickness, or wolf-dog hybridisation as being causes of the attack. The verified case was notable as being the first recorded fatal wolf attack in Alaska in which DNA evidence was gathered to confirm wolf involvement. Findings, Alaska Department of Fish and Game[1]

    Kenton Carnegie 22 male 8 November 2005 Predatory Points North Landing, Saskatchewan, Canada In the weeks leading up to the assault, natural prey for local wolves was becoming scarce. Four wolves at Points North Landing had begun feeding on camp garbage that fall and were habituating increasingly to human activities. On 4 November 2005 two of Carnegie's camp companions, an experienced bush pilot and a geophysicist, met up with two aggressive wolves on the airfield close to camp. The two young men beat back the assault, photographed the wolves and told everybody in camp. They later turned their photos over to the investigating authorities. This incident is now presumed to have been an exploratory assault by the wolves that fits a pattern leading up to predation. On 8 November, the bush pilot warned Carnegie to not walk near Wollaston Lake, but he ignored it. Carnegie hiked in the snow, but did not return to the geological surveyor camp. His body was found partially consumed in an area known to be frequented by four wolves (two gray-tans, one black, and one white) which regularly fed on human garbage. The pathologist who performed the autopsy testified Carnegie had lost about 25% to 30% of his body mass in the assault, with the top midsection to the thigh having been partially consumed. Although originally the possibility that the culprit was a black bear was not ruled out, a coroners' jury concluded after a two year inquiry that the attackers had indeed been a wolf pack. Dr. Valerius Geist, University of Calgary;[2][3]Evidence review and Findings, Alaska Department of Fish and Game[4]

    Patricia Wyman 23–24 female 18 April 1996 Captive Haliburton Forest, Haliburton County, Ontario, Canada Wyman was a wildlife biologist who worked as a caretaker in the Wolf Centre section of the Haliburton Forest & Wildlife Reserve. She was killed by five captive wolves on the third day of her employment. Dr. Erich Klinghammer [5]

    Alyshia Berczyk 3 female 3 June 1989 Captive Forest Lake, Minnesota, US By her family's wolf in the backyard of her father's home. She died of liver damage incurred when the wolf slammed her into the ground. Rochester, Minnesota Post-Bulletin[6]
    Inuit boy Child male 1943 Rabid Wainwright, Alaska Died of rabies from a wolf bite. NINA: Norsk institutt for naturforskning"The Fear of Wolves: A review of wolf attacks on humans" John D. C. Linnell, et. al. January 2002[7]
    Inuit hunter Adult male 1942 Rabid Noorvik, Alaska Died of rabies from a wolf bite. NINA: Norsk institutt for naturforskning"The Fear of Wolves: A review of wolf attacks on humans" John D. C. Linnell, et. al. January 2002[8]
    Three men Adults males 23 December 1922 n/a 2 and 4 miles from Port Arthur, Ontario near the Sturgeon River On 12/23, an elderly trapper left his camp to "mush down" to the village to pick up his mail. Later in the day, two miles from the settlement, two First Nations men discovered his bones and blood in the snow amidst torn pieces of harness. The two men took their own dog teams and extra ammunition out in pursuit of the same wolves but did not return. The following day, two miles from the village beyond the scene of the first fatal attack, a search party discovered the rifles and bones of the two First Nations men amidst bits of clothing and empty shells. Scattered in a circle about the scene were the carcasses of 16 wolves. The Weekly Journal-Miner(Prescott, AZ)[9]

    Ben Cochrane Adult male April 1922 n/a Fisher River near Lake Winnipeg in Manitoba Cochrane was employed in trapping animals when he was attacked by a large pack of timber wolves. When searchers arrived at the horrific scene they found the bones of Cochrane's body, a rifle with a broken buttstock, and the bones of eleven huge timber wolves. Seven of the wolves had been shot and four had been clubbed to death by Cochrane's rifle buttstock. The remaining wolf packoverwhelmed Cochrane causing his death. The Calgary Daily Herald [10]
    Son of Alexander Belliveau Adult male 1893 n/a Northern Michigan Belliveau and a friend were hunting when a band of wolves surrounded and overcame them, despite the young men firing shots into the pack. The friend climbed a tree and watched as Belliveau was torn to pieces by the wolves at the foot of the same tree. The wolves kept Belliveau's companion trapped in the tree for several more hours until Belliveau's co-workers from a nearby railroad construction camp arrived and drove the wolves away. Southwest Sentinel [11]

    Woman and her two children Adult and 2 children male and female Early 1890s n/a Mexico, in the Sierra Madre Occidental Mountains between Durango and the Pacific coast A horseman met a woman and two children who were walking to a relative's remote home. He offered to accompany them as protection from the dangers of wolves (species Mexican wolf) and robbers. The mother declined. The next travelers a short time later found the remains of the three, scattered on the same trail. The cited source indicates the incident was not a lone anecdote but representative of frequent incidents, owing to the fact the local residents were poorly armed. J. Hampden Porter[12]
    Surname"Olson" 2 Adults male 1888, 6 March Predatory New Rockford, North Dakota Mother from inside the house witnessed a large pack of wolves surround, attack, kill, and eat her husband and son, about ten rods (165 feet or 50 meters) away. The pack then tried and failed to get in the house. Investigators found their bones. The St. Paul Daily Globe[13]

    Mr. Duging Adult male January 1885 n/a Menominee, Michigan The temperature had dropped to -43 °F one night in mid January, the weather was severe and small game had become scarce. Mr. Duging failed to return that night from a hunting trip. His friends found his body gnawed to the bone the following morning, within 2 miles of their logging camp. Thirteen wolves that he had shot dead lay scattered near his body. At his side was his Winchester rifle with one round still loaded in the chamber. Las Vegas Daily Gazette[14]

    more at

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks_in_North_America
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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  12. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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  13. sawyer

    sawyer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Interesting, guess I heard wrong. I was happy about seeing wolf tracks in the snow about a mile from my house last winter, now I wonder if that's so great after all. Still very rare for a wolf to attack man though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  14. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    I'd be happy to, as you say attacks are very rare.
     
  15. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    I'm surprised there have been that many fatal Black Bear encounters.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  16. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Me too,
    Lots of Black Bears in NYS, they love to pig out on apples and corn and garbage cans, they very rarely attack people, mostly ignore them and eat like pigs.
    Or like Yogi Bear.
     
  17. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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  18. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    This is about the same as fatal mountain lion attacks as well.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America
     
  19. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    By the time you add everything up, this is why I usually carry a slug shotgun with me in the woodlands -- loaded with alternating magnum slugs and double-aught buckshot.
     
  20. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Myth. Don't you know how to google ???

    Don't you ever watch The Discovery Channel ???
     
  21. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you do decide to carry that .45 open I would recommend that you have a holster that prevents someone from easily grabbing it from behind while you're in a store or crowd
     
  22. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, at one time it was that way all across America and Europe. Little Red Riding Hood was born out of that terrorism. You'd think we would have learned.
    They attack in packs, not alone. When the deer and elk population ebbs, humans are fair game.
     
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  23. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    No.
    Humans are still not proper prey for Wolves, they only attack humans as a last resort when sick or starving.
     
  24. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. The only time I got concerned I was hiking in Canada, no firearm because I didn't want to take one across the border, and I spotted some large bear tracks, fresh, on a muddy trail. It was clear that he was above us, and the wind was coming down the hill, so he wouldn't have smelled us as we moved up. Plus, I had the mother of 5 children with me. I thought, if I was alone that's one thing, being responsible for the mother of 5 children is another thing all together, so I didn't risk it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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  25. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    I hear you, very wise.

    In my youth, walking through the forrest,
    Upstate N.Y., I spotted a black bear head in a tree trunk hole chomping at something, I ran on foot back to the cabin at a speed of at least 35 mph, I thought at the time.

    I was of course unarmed.
    Fishing pole don't count.

    I was only 10 and a very fast runner.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
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