Part 29 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

You don't go to hell for not disagreeing with the Bible. You do go to hell for being evil as taught in the Bible and one is condemned for going against Alexander the Great. The Resurrection has been proven not only that God's existence has been proven Jesus ascension is not fantastical myth it was real that is why the great change in attitude after the Apostles witness Jesus Christ.

It would seem's no amount of evidence will ever convince the hard core unbelievers no matter what. God came as Jesus Christ they persecuted him and he resurrected and still not only do they not believe but they take every actions to discredit Jesus Christ. If Christ is not real they do not need to spend so much effort in discrediting Christ.

Yes modern secular science were able to establish the theory on how the resurrection could have happened. Here is a summary; Jesus missing 25 years was that he was learning medicine, Jewish tradition, science and philosophy. That was why he knew more than the Pharisees. Jesus was able to acquire high level of meditation and medicine that would allow him a high level of how to manipulate pain tolerance. The last supper Jesus drunk some medication or potion to immune his senses getting ready for the torture of the crucifixion. When Jesus fell carrying the cross Mary approach her and administered some drugs that would cause his heart to stop in a few hours after being crucified and that an antidote need to be administered with few hours or else he will be dead for permanently that was why when the Roman soldier pierce Christ left side there was not much blood because Jesus was already in self induced coma his heart has already stopped. Joseph of Arimathea had to quickly bring Jesus down from the cross to administered the antidote in order to revive Christ with 48 hours.

When Jesus was laid inside the tomb there were the Roman guards outside. The Apostles were mostly worried about their own safety afraid that the authorities may come and arrest them. The Roman guards were the first to witness Christ resurrection even though they did not understood what has happened except that there was the tomb seal was roll back and Christ's body was not inside.

The chronology of events is well link from the Annunciation, birth of Christ, the child Christ, the baptism and ministry of Christ, the persecution and crucifixion, the Resurrection, the Apostles mission, the persecution of Christ followers called Christians, the end of Christian persecution by Constantine, and to today present day. Christ execution and Resurrection hardly attracted any attention until it was clear that followers of Christ was increasing and many Romans were converting to Christianity that was when the Romans started to pay serious attention unfortunately the attention they accorded to the Christians was not cordial or tolerance but persecution.

The chronology of events is well link from the Annunciation, birth of Christ, the child Christ, the baptism and ministry of Christ, the persecution and crucifixion, the Resurrection, the Apostles mission, the persecution of Christ followers called Christians, the end of Christian persecution by Constantine, and to today present day.

Christ was not important the Romans hardly paid any attention it was only after the spread of Christianity was evident not only to the Jews but to Romans that the Romans started to pay attention unfortunately the attention they accorded to the Christians was not cordial or tolerance it was persecution.

The Jewish historian Josephus,writing for the Roman government in the 70's A.D. records some incidental things regarding Christ and the church. He confirms that John the Baptist died at the hand of Herod (this same incident is recorded in the gospels) as well as the death of, "The brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James. . . he delivered them to be stoned" (Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book XVIII, ch. V, p. 20; Book XX, ch. IX, p. 140 ). Again we have sources external to the Bible that demonstrate the historical reliability of the text. Josephus, who was probably alive during the time of Christ, is attesting to the reality of his existence. What this also tells us is that within 40 years of Christ's death, the knowledge of who he was was widespread enough that Josephus could reference him and expect his readers to know exactly who he was talking about.

http://www.xenos.org/classes/papers/doubt.htm

 

That is NOT true and you know it. What does the Bible say happens to people who don't accept Jesus as their lord and savior?

You can't use stories in a book as evidence for stories in a book. That's circular.

Poor argument. I can discredit that the moon is made out of cheese, but that doesn't mean the moon is actually made out of cheese.

...So your argument was that Jesus was simply a conman? Then what the hell is so special about his "resurrection", if it was just caused by medicine?

That isn't what the Bible says. Do you even know anything about your own religion, ffs?

 

It is very true that anyone who are against their emperors be it Alexander, Caesar, Pharaoh, Sultan etc. are condemn to death. Anyone who are against Christ are not condemn to death. The Bible is very clear "Father forgive them for they do not know what they do" Today, you will be with me in Paradise" "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Scholars use recognize historical books to proof the facts of history the Bible is use the same way. Unbelievers and deniers have to provide proofs beyond reasonable doubt that their claims are supported or not.

Because it has been establish that the moon is not made of cheese your claim will be ignored and will not be part of factual science or history but that does not mean you can not stop claiming it is made of cheese.

Conman, none existence, myth, not Son of God you name it that is what the deniers are claiming. For the science world it is significant because it presented to us or to them that in ancient times there are special individuals with special knowledge that is comparable to today's modern science and medicine just like how modern scientist are still puzzle as to how selected few individuals of ancient minds could design build great monuments without any modern tools, equipment or education.

For Christians the Resurrection is significant because it is clear evidence of God is with us.

Bible history is very clear the chronology of events is well documented that is why none believers can not provide any proof that the Resurrection did not happened or is not real.

 

Seem's imply assumption and assumption is not synonymous with fact. My mind is open to change, but you have yet given me any evidence proving to my satisfaction that the resurrection happened. I do not claim that the resurrection did not happen... I was not there so I do not know.

As most of your argument rely upon the Bible perhaps we need to focus on its credibility. Many a Christian has told me that it contains the word of God. Do you agree with that statement? If so what evidence do you have that it contains the word of God?

Theory is nothing but an educated guess waiting to be validated, amended, or proven incorrect. Theory is not proof of the resurrection... not to me anyway.

Nice story... here is another one... the Roman soldiers moved the body... which story is correct... there is probably no way to know. If I put my mind to it I could come to all sorts of possible conclusions. The women not holding vigil over the tomb leaves open the possibility that someone moved the body.

Most of the above has nothing to do with the resurrection. Are there Roman writings of the event (the resurrection) that support the Biblical account?

And this does nothing to prove the resurrection to me.

 

Come back in the spring of 2016 for your answer from the OP.
But from the christian point of view, your actions are meaningless. It is by faith in Jesus as the risen messiah that only has meaning.
And, from the christian point of view, everything you think and action you do, is known before hand and there isn't anything you can do to change what is already known about you.

PS - You have the 'free will' to never be able to change anything that is already known about you or anything else in the world.

 

True....like-

"What is the Biblical position on people who try to re-write the Bible and put stuff in it that isn't there?"

 

Yes, it is very clear, and maybe it's time for you to re-read it since you seem to have missed the numerous verses where Jesus DOES condemn people who don't believe in him to hell.

Mark 16:16: The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who does not believe will be condemned.

John 3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God

Matthew 7:21: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

NO, they don't. Scholars use historical accounts to say if some event had a chance of occurring or not. Many attributes of historical events, and even many historical events, are widely known to be on shaky grounds and we don't pretend like they aren't.

Your argument was that if somebody spends time discrediting something, than whatever they are trying to discredit happened. That is a horrible argument.

Okay, but do you understand that if you're saying that the Resurrection of Jesus was NATURAL versus SUPERNATURAL, than there is really nothing special at all about it? The only reason that Jesus' Resurrection is important to Christians is because they think that it was a SUPERNATURAL event that PROVES Jesus as God. What you're saying is that Jesus was revived using medicine. If that's so, then there is no reason why we would believe Jesus to be God.

No, it isn't. How is somebody being "resurrected" with medicine evidence that God is with you?

Point out where the Bible says that the Roman guards were the first ones to see Jesus resurrect.

 

In those verses you cited below, what is the punishment (found in those verses) for the crime(s) in which they committed or will commit? All I see in those verses is the issue of condemnation... but no punishment is mentioned.

 

You have to throw out human qualities we have been created with, like logic, to be a believer.

 

Logic is a man made set of rules and is a learned process by those who study those rules... man was not created with logic. Who was considered as the creator of (father of) logic? Does Plato ring a bell?

 

I am not here to change your mind I am here to share the truth it is up to you to accept truth or not. I was not there too just like I was not there when Caesar conquered Gaul or when Eisenhower visited Nazi death camps but we know all those were real just like the Resurrection because of eye witness accounts.
[video=youtube;MPmGcridHQ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPmGcridHQ8[/video]

Yes, the Bible is the Word of God. Jesus Christ, the Apostles the Saints are the greatest evidence that the Bible is the Word of God.

That is why all the deniers have are theories.

The historical fact was that the Roman soldiers did not moved or touch Jesus body that claim are from the deniers. We already know that it was not the Roman soldiers, not the Apostles, not the women or anyone who moved or stole Jesus body it was as written in historical fact Jesus Christ resurrected.
The deniers theory was that someone moved Jesus body if that is so then who was the resurrected Jesus that appeared to the Apostles a look a like? No, deniers have no reasonable historical answer except to deny the truth that Jesus resurrected, that he is the Son of God, that the events were factual.

The Romans did not understood what was going the only time they started to pay attention was when they noticed many were converting to Christianity especially Romans and the Romans reacted they started to pay attention and wrote about it some 50 years later sadly it was not how they embraced Christianity but how they persecuted Christians.

Not to you it is up to you just like every individual has the right to accept truth or not and we know human nature there will always be those who will not accept truth no matter what.

 

The big difference is that anyone who deny or condemn Alexander the Great, Caesar, Xerxes, Pharaohs, emperors, kings, queens are actually put to death condemn to die. None of those verses call for the condemnation of anyone to death for denying God what it does said is that when one die or is dead they will be judge accordingly if they qualify to enter Heaven or not. Ones condemnation is from one self not from God. God steps in once one has condemn or not to themselves.
"Father forgive them for they know not what they do" "Today, you will be with me in paradise"

And only those that are well accounted for with supporting manuscripts, evidences and events are accepted as historical facts.

If someone going to insist that the moon is made of cheese there is nothing I or you can do about that we can be sure that it isn't and ignore that wild mythical claim.

What I am presenting is the science part that refused to accept Jesus Christ divinity instead they believe it was something medical and they make sense today because we know that it is possible for an individual to be able to do what science describe but what science has failed and is still in puzzlement just like they are still puzzle was to where could one such person could have learn such technology, medicine and science so advance that is not possible in ancient times? And for what reason were those mysterious monuments are for what purpose would Jesus have to resurrect in such manner? Science is still searching maybe one day they'll discover why. Right now they just can't accept the fact that it was not for this kingdom but for a kingdom not of this world.

If Jesus some how has that advance knowledge just like those ancient individuals that design and build those Great Pyramids, Stonehenge with out any modern tools or education science would have proven that Jesus is not God but a great great individual that possess extraordinary knowledge and skill and what he did would be with us for centuries to come never to be forgotten his actions would led to the advancement of modern science, medicine, technology and civilization. Science just have a hard time accepting God but what they could proof would actually be that Jesus is God and that he is with us forever and ever.

Matthew 28:
2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.
3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.
4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.

11 While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened.
12 When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money,
13 telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.’
14 If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.”
15 So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.

 

Actually, that is EXACTLY what the Bible says happens. That you perish if you don't believe in Jesus. And no, the Bible does not say that. I know you want it to say that, but it doesn't. Also, who creates the rules for who is condemned and not condemned, us or God?

EXACTLY. Which is why the vast majority of historians don't believe in the fantastical and supernatural claims that are laid out in the Gospel.

But YOU made the argument that if somebody spends time discrediting something, it means that whatever they're discrediting is TRUE.

So, you don't believe that Jesus actually took medicine to resurrect? Then why bring it up? It is not relevant at all to this topic of conversation. I want to debate what YOU believe, not what others believe.

The only thing I see is that the Roman guards saw an angel and got frightened. You said that they were the first to witness the RESURRECTION, not an angel.

 

What a silly question. God created everything. And knows the entire path of everything prior to creating it.
So God created man's logic.

 

Oh my goodness. I am almost positive that there are some Atheists and other non-theists that will be a bit agitated behind you giving credit to God for having created 'logic'. That would mean that the Atheists and other non-theists are in effect praising God every time they praise 'logic' and for that matter science. Wow.. God the greatest scientist and yet the scientists of this day and age reject the notion of God. You do realize, that when you give credit to God for such things as you have stated above, that there is no way that I would even attempt to argue with you. As stated, that would also mean that God created 'free will' .... thank you for that admission.

 

OMG, are you an atheist?

 

Of course not. An atheist would not openly praise God or even make a declaration pointing to the positive existence of God. Has your memory failed and you no longer recall the many such declarations on this forum that I have made?

 

I'm not sure I remember you making a declaration pointing to the positive existance of God, Incorporeal.

Most times you never make any declarations....just ask questions of other posters endlessly..

 

Well, they are there among the 24000 + postings that I have made. I never expect anyone to read all of my postings so it is reasonable to assume that you might have overlooked them.

 

The Bible don't condemn anyone to death while they are still alive the Bible teaches us life after death. Man-gods condemn people to death not the Bible that was why they had Jesus condemn to be executed.
Man-gods create their own rules most of the time it is against anyone who refused to submit to their dictatorship it is about against good. God's rules are about protecting good people and punishing the wicked.

That is why deniers can not provide any proof to disclaim the historicity of the Bible while historians were able to learn a lot about the past especially about the Hebrews and their nation Israel but most of all about God's existence since the dawn of civilization thanks to the Holy Bible.

One can not discredit what is true that is why deniers will always and will never succeed in discrediting truth no matter how long it takes or how extreme they do it.

No I do not believe in the science theory that Jesus took some medicine although it could be a possibility since Jesus is in human form how else could a human survive a grueling torture and resurrect only God would have such knowledge of medicine to use on himself in human form and then Resurrect? How else do you explain Jesus knowledge on Jewish tradition and Torah? How else do you explain Jesus knowledge in curing the blind or the lepers? Debate on what you don't believe in God or the Bible and you will discover the truth.

Yes, the guards as soon as they saw the angels they run away what they did not understand was that it was the Resurrection. They were the first to witness the Resurrection what they did not understood that was why they could not explain it well to the Jewish high priest.

Matthew 28:
2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.
3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.
4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.[/I]

11 While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened.
12 When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money,
13 telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.’
14 If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.”
15 So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.[/COLOR]

 

Then don't worry if atheists don't believe God created everything, including human logic. All you need to know is that you know God created human logic. Some Christians just don't seem to use it. Or have a completely different reasoning, or no reasoning at all.

 

On that same note pad, there could have been placed a notation pointing out that Atheists should not worry if some Theists believe that God created everything. As for the remainder of your post... there are exceptions to be found in almost any category of things.

 

Except for what YOU believe, right?

 

On the contrary. There are many, many things on that list of my beliefs, so yes there are exceptions there also.