Part 38 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

You haven't learned anything, I mean as long as I have been here you should know by now because I know I have informed you many a times that our Lord Savior Jesus Christ would speak at certain times figuratively/metaphorically and so you are not to take Him literally...ahhh yah yah!

Anyway there is a message to this verse, but I know you don't care or don't want to hear about any messages coming from our Lord. You are just here to continually mock. Someday/oneday all your mocking will come to an end...and you know that's the truth!

He did not have to, but chose to—we have the free will to disobey Him, blaspheme Him, and, yes, even mock Him. But we are warned in Galatians 6:7 that God will not always be mocked. The blasphemy and derision are temporary. There will be a day of reckoning, and, ultimately, a man reaps what he sows.

 

You are certainly correct that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is astonishingly merciful.

He and his helpers sure did an amazing job of transforming the thought process of former Atheist Howard Storm Ph. D. during his near death experience.

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/howard-storm.html

 

As I've said, I've missed your non-sense. How can a person have free will when Deuteronomy chapter 23 excludes people for 10 generations for what their ancient ancestors did?

 

The ancient ancestors had free will to make the errors that they did........
and very courageous souls that already exist in heaven volunteer to incarnate into the bodies of those
children and grandchildren for ten generations.........
to play out their role in the massive drama that HaShem has initiated here on earth.

https://www.near-death.com/science/research/pre-existence.html

 

AA asked another interesting question..........
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...egarding-christianity.335268/#post-1063393937

Details on how that was done was given the The Book of Jasher........

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/5.htm

 

Saying "WE READ IN SCRIPTURE" is more or less the same thing as saying "WE READ IN A FAIRY TALE."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Myth

Can you find some explanation in your "Scripture" as to why God created vestigial structures in animals?

 

Coming in on the tail end of things, but I have a couple questions (three for starters):

Do Catholics call themselves Christians or CG (abv. - doing this on my phone - CG) because I wasn't able to take The Body nor The Blood at their service?

If Jews are people of God (God's chosen) and Jesus was a Jew, and they don't believe in Him, why do Christians?

Why are there so many religions within the CG umbrella?

 

I will field this question... As history shows, the people only knew what they saw then wrote... The Earth was flat, and as far as they knew, what their eyes showed them, that YES - Indeed the Earth was underwater, since they didn't even know about England or China yet...

 

After all this time, you are still sticking to your Evolution Religion... No such thing as Vestigial parts... Just some made up things for those religous evolutionaries...

 

The Book of Jasher is a fraud. The one mentioned in the Bible has never been found but several made-up versions have appeared over the millenia.

 

No, salvation is through our Lord Savior Jesus Christ and not by works. But the only way one can be saved through works without accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord Savior is if this person has never heard of Jesus Christ, has never been made aware that in order to be saved you must accept Jesus. Surely there are some people in the world today who have never heard of our Lord Savior Jesus Christ. The people living in the remote jungles of South America, or the Phillipines for example.

However, if a person has heard of Jesus Christ, has been made aware that in order to be saved you must accept Him, ask Him for forgiveness of their sins but they refuse to do this because they don't recognize/believe that He is their Savior, they only believe they need to do good works in order to be saved, this person/persons are gravely mistaken, these people will not be saved by his/her/their good works.

So you are correct in saying that one can be saved through good works, if one does not know Jesus per the 1st scenario I layed out above but they cannot be saved through good works per the 2nd scenario I layed out above.

There is a passage in Scripture which affirms what I layed out in the 1st scenario above to be true. Let me put up that passage from Scripture.

12 When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God’s written law. And the Jews, who do have God’s law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it. 13 For merely listening to the law doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight. 14 Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. 15 They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. 16 And this is the message I proclaim—that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone’s secret life.---Romans 2:12-16 NLT

And there is this passage in Scripture that affirms the only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ.

6 Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. 7 If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!"---John 14:6-7 NLT

 

Why are you quoting from John when I am talking about the salvation formulation given in Matt/Mark ? Worse why on earth are you quoting from Paul in a discussion about the salvation formulation given by Jesus ?

I agree that as per your passage in John - Jesus states in Matt that salvation is through him .. Jesus is the guardian at the entrance to the pearly gates. You have to make it through Jesus to get in. The basis for admission however is works.

As we read in Scripture Matt 25

As you can see - for those who have eyes - Jesus is the one who determines who get's into heaven... you have to go through Jesus in order to get into heaven. How he separates The sheep - those who get in" The Goats - those who do not - is through works.

Those who know Jesus but do not do good works are sent away to eternal punishment. Those who do not know Jesus but do good works receive salvation.

The famous sermon on the mount Matt 5-7 says the same thing. Rather than just one line that you quoted out of context - the whole sermon is about how one makes it through the pearly gates.

As we read in Scripture Matt 5 - Jesus begins his sermon with "Blessed are the poor in spirit - for theirs is the kingdom of heaven"

Jesus then goes on to talk about works, works, and more works saying nothing of any need to worship or believe in the divinity of Jesus.

He then summarizes Matt 7

It is by their fruit - their deeds that people are separated - just like in the Goat and Sheep's parable.

You can cry out " Jesus Jesus" all you like - like these pathetic fundamentalists who blaspheme the holy spirit by claiming to speak for God - ... it will do you no good. "Only the one who does the will of the Father" which is given in the teachings of Jesus in the Sermon he has just given - works.

For those who still doubt - Jesus restates again - It is those who put his teachings in to practice that are on solid ground. Those who "believe in Jesus" hear his words but do not put them into practice who have build their foundation on sand.

This is your house Mitt.

 

What happened to answering the questions from threads 5-37?
Are you ignoring all those questions? Or they were tougher questions that you can't answer?

 

Be patient. It's not 2020 yet.

 

Mitt quote.

Sorry but nothing has been proven, all we have are theories/speculations/guesswork/opinions/assumptions/denials. We don't even know what the topography was back then prior to the flood. Do you know how high was the highest mountain peak prior to the flood?....the answer is no.

Do you know what were the depths of the entire ocean sea floor prior to the flood?...the answer is no.

Prior to the flood the mountains were not as high as they are today, prior to the flood the ocean sea floor was not as deep as today. How do we know this?... by reading Scripture, the Bible clearly tells us that God acted to alter the Earth's topography.

After God flooded the entire earth covering the highest mountain peak, He eventually had the flood waters recede. He did this by raising the land masses and dropping the ocean sea floor creating deep sea basins so that the flood water would then be drained off from the land.


Absolute load of tripe.

 

I'll tell you what, if I have to bow down before the prick being put forward he in order to get to this Heaven place....I'll pass.

 

That is true, I mean one can't say they believe in Jesus and has accepted Him as their Lord Savior on Sundays, then the rest of the week raise hell and commit all sorts of sinful deeds, that would be so hypocritical. I know God's salvation doesn't work that way and I would be bold to say I don't believe God has hypocrites in His Kingdom of Heaven.

Yes, the stories do have a message and yes, you're right, the messages are not senseless.

Well, yeah the Bible is not a science book, I agree, however I disagree with you that it is not a history book. As we know there are 66 different books that makes up the Bible. They are comprised of books of law, historical books, books of poetry, books of prophecy, biographies, and epistles (letters).

You can believe what you want to believe but sorry you haven't convinced me to believe what you believe. Let's not forgot, I'm the practicing Christian here whereas you're the practicing agnostic.

God is just who He is....God. He is the Eternal One, the Creator of the universe and everything that lives outside of Himself. He always existed, He has no beginning, He has no end.

So you would rather spend your eternity in hell instead of heaven? Well that's your choice, when you find yourself there oneday it'll be too late to change your decision. I, myself choose to spend eternity in God's Kingdom of Heaven with the Lord and everybody else who is saved, to live in heavenly bliss forever and ever.

We Read in Scripture

13 "You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. 14 But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.---Matthew 7:13-14 NLT

 

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Moses could not have written the Pentateuch..

Mitt reply.

You can believe what you want to believe but sorry you haven't convinced me to believe what you believe. Let's not forgot, I'm the practicing Christian here whereas you're the practicing agnostic.

. Of course you don't believe. You churn out what others tell you without question.

If this supposed Moses of yours had lived when he is recorded in the Bible to have lived he could never have heard of the Chaldeans. Come to that it would be another 400 years before anyone did. If he was brought up in Pharaohs Palace he would certainly heard of the Hittites, and probably met some of them when their emissaries visited Pharaoh. He would have known their history as the Hittites and Egyptians often came to blows. He would have known that the Hittites didn't appear until long after Abraham was dead. So he was lying when he said Abraham bought a piece of land from them?. He would have also known that Machpelah was Egyptian soil, not Hittite.
Now when the scribes wrote the story of Moses in the 7th century Ur was indeed 'Ur of the Chaldees'. Part of the NeoBabylonian empire. Before their time it had been in many hands.

You live in a world that does not exist in reality and, in fact, never did. It's only the 'church' down the ages which has kept things going. 2000 years ago. That is breaking down because we know more through various means such as archaeology etc. Archaeology is a two-edged sword. It proves some Biblical events and dismisses others. The OT Hebrew world as described in the Pentateuch never existed, and the history of the Jewish people from the tribal king David is full of exaggerations and important omissions. The NT world of the Gospels is hardly seen in its reality. It was far different than that we see in the Gospels. It wasn't a Christian world but a Jewish world. A world of religious domination, of foreign domination, of violence against Rome by 'saviours' and rebels, of murder by Zealots who were eventually the cause of the downfall of the Jews.

The Jewish preacher Jesus was a breath of fresh air for the downtrodden Jews - downtrodden by their own religious rulers. Jesus used the OT in the belief that it was true. Like you, Mitt, he had been indoctrinated in the faith - he from the age of 5. Some of the things put into the mouth of Jesus by whoever wrote the Gospels are simply 'Christian' additions. Much of his teaching was Jewish. His actions were Jewish. His baptism in water was Jewish, his 'temptation' was in line with Jewish belief that Jahweh sent his messenger to test peoples faith. We see this in the OT. often. A study of the OT shows that neither his birth or death are foretold there.

The Bible was written by men. The world is, unfortunately, also ruled by men.

Have you ever read anything by The Prophet Khalil Gibran. He's worth reading



And an old priest said, 'Speak to us of Religion.'

And he said:

Have I spoken this day of aught else?

Is not religion all deeds and all reflection,

And that which is neither deed nor reflection, but a wonder and a surprise ever springing in the soul, even while the hands hew the stone or tend the loom?

Who can separate his faith from his actions, or his belief from his occupations?

Who can spread his hours before him, saying, 'This for God and this for myself; This for my soul, and this other for my body?'

All your hours are wings that beat through space from self to self.

He who wears his morality but as his best garment were better naked.

The wind and the sun will tear no holes in his skin.

And he who defines his conduct by ethics imprisons his song-bird in a cage.

The freest song comes not through bars and wires.

And he to whom worshipping is a window, to open but also to shut, has not yet visited the house of his soul whose windows are from dawn to dawn.

Your daily life is your temple and your religion.

Whenever you enter into it take with you your all.

Take the plough and the forge and the mallet and the lute,

The things you have fashioned in necessity or for delight.

For in revery you cannot rise above your achievements nor fall lower than your failures.

And take with you all men:

For in adoration you cannot fly higher than their hopes nor humble yourself lower than their despair.

And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles.

Rather look about you and you shall see Him playing with your children.

And look into space; you shall see Him walking in the cloud, outstretching His arms in the lightning and descending in rain.

You shall see Him smiling in flowers, then rising and waving His hands in trees.

 

Great post.. I love The Prophet Khalil Gibran. My father gave me his copy when I turned 13.

 

You mentioned growing up in the Pharaohs palace. Basically, his step grandfather. But yet, he couldn't remember his name when he wrote the books of the bible.
That is pretty odd.

 

It would be if Moses had really existed Mitt ignores reality for his own world.

 

But there is a need for a leap of faith to not believe in/to deny/ God's existence when there is an abundance of evidence to support God's existence. That's why again like I've been saying, the atheist who believes there is no God and the agnostic who is not sure if there is a God must take a leap of faith to deny that all the evidence is best explained by the existence of God.

Well of course not, there is no abundance of evidence that they exist, but there is an abundance of evidence that God exists, furthermore no one cares if they do exist nor does anyone care if they don't exist, however when it comes to God Almighty everyone cares if He exists or doesn't exist. I mean, I care that He exists, because I want to spend my eternity in His Kingdom of Heaven with Him and everyone else who is saved. You and the rest of your non-believing friends care that He doesn't exist because you all don't want to be punish for your sins. Surely you folks don't want Him to exist, you care that He doesn't exist.

Not true. Those Biblical stories you've mentioned are all included in the Catholic Bibles, they are not hidden, they are all canonized. So they don't view them as apocryphal.

 

There is no leap of faith to not believe. It is a contradiction in terms.

You start from a false assumption that the natural world provides evidence to support god's existence. That is merthe

You see the natural world's beauty and wonder and attribute it to your god. I see it as simply the geological and environmental beauty of the world that produced us.

I get it. YOu think your religion is correct and everyone else's is wrong. You have all the evidence you need of his existence. Why you even know the very words of his directions to his faithful.

I respect your right to believe and understand how inviolate one's faith can be. Afterall, it defines ones own purpose and mortality for them. It provides them with "comfort in the knowledge" when the crap seriously hits the fan.

Absolutely true. The catholic churches official position is that the story of the flood etc. of the old testament are metaphorical. They accept the big bang theory AND evolution.

Might wanna bone up on what some true believers actually believe.

 

No, it doesn't mean that. That verse in Scripture that YouLie quoted comes from Revelation 13:18. The beast is the Antichrist. For a very long time (centuries) Bible interpreters have been trying to identify certain individuals with 666 (the numbers 666 is the beast/ the Antichrist). Till this day nothing is conclusive, that is why Revelation 13:18 says the number requires wisdom. Oneday when the Antichrist is revealed, it will be clear who he is and how the number 666 identifies him. Who knows if he is living right now or if he will come in the distant future?...nobody knows, only God Almighty knows.

 

While I give you Kudo's for recognizing "something is hypocritical here" ... I do not think you get the ramifications of what you are saying.

The argument against "Sola Fide - salvation by faith alone" .. is that it allows for exactly this kind of hypocrisy.

Although sola fide doctrine did not really exist during the time of Constantine .. it was on this idea that Constantine (and numerous others throughout the ages) put off his baptism until his deathbed.

That you just wave a magical want - sprinkle some water - and all one's sins are washed away. This is what you believe is it not ? One is not saved unless baptized in the blood of Christ.. or at least is this not the mantra of the fundamentalist ?

You need to step out of your man made dogma for just a moment and use the thinking cap that God gave you por favor. God did not give you the ability for logic and reason .. for no reason !

And do not entertain any ideas to the effect of "you do not understand"... I assure you... I have far more understanding of your own dogma than you do. I know full well the Pauline concept of "Grace" ... I very strict and uber religious upbringing sometimes attending Church 3 times a week and have close relatives who are ministers - and have had countless religious debates with them and have been doing this for many decades .. its what I do.

Christianity has two contradictory salvation formulations. Protestants on one hand "Sola Fide" .. Catholic and Orthodox (the majority) on the other - a quazi mixture of faith and works.

The Church has been wrestling with this question for millennia. For you to just dismiss it - by quoting one passage (one that you misinterpreted but even if you had not done so) - is denial and avoidance. Just as you have avoided addressing the central argument - MADE BY JESUS - outlined in my previous post.

I do not believe that you not take this subject (the subject of salvation) seriously... so then - "TAKE IT SERIOUSLY" and quite engaging in thought stopping devices... avoidance, denial (and often accompanied by demonization of the messenger which you have not done so thanks for that).

The question here is not what I believe. The question here is not what you believe. The question here is not what some denomination believes. The question at hand is "What did Jesus believe".

What I am trying to do is "Objectively" assess the evidence we have and let the chips fall where they may. This means one has to throw away all dogma and just look at the evidence .. pretending one has never heard of this Jesus fellow.

Do you think you can do this ?