Major League Baseball relented, and allowed Cincinnati Red's great, Pete Rose, the all time hit leader in baseball, to go onto the field at the recent All Star Game there, as one of the fans selection's of four players they wanted to see and honor. Unusual, since Rose is on a life time ban for betting on baseball, not only for his team to win, but insuring they lost, which had an outcome on every game he ever managed in a Red's uniform. He also routinely bet on games as a player, however, in that capacity, he was limited to the level he could effect the outcome. As manager, he wasn't. Well, Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bailes, ESPN Sports anchors, and two guys whose opinions about sports make as much sense as their opinions about astro-psychics, had differing views recently on the Pete Rose situation. I usually hit the mute button on the tv whenever Stephen A. Smith is talking, guy is orbiting somewhere, but it is nowhere near the planet earth. Just one example of this lame announcer's thought process, when in 2013, the Miami Heat rallied down 5 with 20 seconds to play in Game 6 of the NBA playoffs, and down 3-2 to the San Antonio Spurs, the trophy was already over by the San Antonio bench covered with a towel. In 15-years of attending Heat games, have seen some amazing miracles in that building, but when Miami tied the game on a Ray Allen 3-pointer, and Chris Bosh blocked the final Spurs shot to send the game into overtime, with Miami winning, tying the series 3-3 and winning Game 7 and the championship, one of the greatest comeback stories in sports. However, with those 20 second to go, about 1,000 Miami fans headed towards the exits. The national broadcast, instead of staying with the game live, focused on the Miami fans filing out (20,000 plus were in attendance, about 1,000 left to beat the traffic, assuming the Heat had lost). When Miami tied the game, and sent it to overtime, all of those fans flooded back to the arena banging on the doors, insisting they be let back in. Of course, there is a No Re-Entry policy on sports and concerts. Once the crowd has gone through ticket scan and in, they are in, once out, they are out. There are occasional exceptions, for medicine to be picked up in a car they forgot, but those are extremely rare. Well, instead of focusing on the Heat's amazing comeback and championship win (San Antonio evened the score by blowing the Heat away 4-1 the next season), Stephen A. Smith's ESPN broadcast focused solely on the fickle Miami fans who wouldn't stick with their team, and wait for the championship presentation. Like any Miami fan was going to stick around at the final buzzer and watch the Spurs take our trophy in our house away. That was his lead, and if he is talking basketball - Miami is the one team he absolutely hates, for some reason. Anyway, the argument Smith put forth was that Pete Rose had now served a 19-year exile sentence from Major League Baseball, and it was time the league relented and removed the ban. Of course, he had never mentioned the fact that Rose never did any of the things that the late Bart Giamanti set forth regarding community service and actions that might mitigate the life time ban. Last I knew, Pete Rose had done 18-hours of community service in 19 years, yet he wants in the Hall of Fame. Now, most HOF nominees, done by sports writers, and many of them never even saw the player in their prime when they vote. The left Andre "The Hawk" Dawson out of the Hall for almost 20-years before putting him in, believe as a Montreal Expo. Something I learned recently, the HOF committee decides what team you represent when you are elected to the Hall, not the player. Now, I really don't have a significant problem with the ancient history of Pete Rose betting on baseball, or allowing him into the Hall of Fame, it will happen eventually, but guessing after his death. What Smith doesn't understand is the MLB rule on associating with known gamblers (1-season suspension - even Babe Ruth got one of those so did Leo Durocher); betting on the outcome of baseball; altering or attempting to alter the outcome of the game, life time suspension, per Judge Kennesaw "Mountain" Landis in 1920, when he exiled 8-member's of the 1919 American League champion Chicago White Sox (known as the Black Sox Scandal), for life for throwing the 1919 World Series to the Reds, for money from gamblers. The two most prominent members of the Black Sox (who actually were found Not Guilty in a trial which could have sent them all to jail, but were banned anyway the next day), were pitcher Eddie Chicotte, who won 29 games in 1919 for the Sox. The other was "Shoeless" Joe Jackson, the player with the second best statistics ever in Major League Baseball, second only to Ty Cobb, who took the gambler's money, than had a fine World Series anyways, but failed to report the bribes to the team or the league. The posted sign regarding gambling violations is in every baseball clubhouse in America, from Rookie to A-AA-AAA and Major League level, prominently displayed on the door, and in the clubhouse. Nobody who is involved in baseball isn't aware of that rule. So, if they put Pete Rose into the HOF, abrogating the life time ban for gambling, while he is alive - are they going to add in the steroid era players with the corked bats (Bonds, McGuire and Sosa)? And, if they put Rose in, they are going to have to vote Joe Jackson' in also (Rose doesn't even come close to his statistics), and the gambling rule is kaput. Also, I have yet to figure out why the HOF Veteran's Committee hasn't put Roger Maris, Cleveland, New York Yankee, and St.Louis Cardinal great hitter in the HOF. HIs 61 home runs in 1961, was the sports story, and just about the most followed story of the year (even though Kennedy was elected after the end of that season). Maris held the single season home run record longer than Babe Ruth did, and is the only ballplayer in history to win two MVP awards, and not be put into the Hall of Fame. Generally, I think HOF inductions are boring recaps of players who played long ago (if you are out of the game 5-years, the sport has moved on). What the Hall of Fame's should do, is end the 5-year waiting period, and award some players with immediate entrance into the HOF during their playing careers. Guys like Dan Marino; Jim Kelly; Lawrence Taylor; JIm Brown; and today's stars like Peyton Manning; Tom Brady; Eli Manning, who are automatic first ballot selections but forced to wait. A HOF patch on their uniform in gold, would IMO be an excellent way of honoring great sports legends, while we still have the time to enjoy their talents, not after we watch a highlight reel. I would have worked for guys like Mickey Mantle; Stan Musuel; Roger Maris (still waiting, and died early); Ted Williams, who lost 5-years of his career in its prime while serving in combat. Joe Dimaggio; Sandy Koufax, and others like Johnny Bench; Tony Perez; Tom Seaver; Mike Schmidt, etc. Pete Rose in the HOF before he passes away - really don't have a problem with it, but Stephen A. Smith only touched the service of the story, because if you put in Rose, you have to put in Joe Jackson, and maybe even Eddie Chicotte, and of course - Roger Maris...............
Not a huge base ball fan, but do understand what Charlie Hustle meant to baseball. But, what did it mean to him? I say not much, until it was taken from him by his own selfish and arrogant actions. Nope, no reinstatement, no Hall.
Agree with you on that, was just commenting about Stephen A. Smith's stating Rose has already served a 19-year penalty of a life sentence, which he wants commuted by MLB, and have him put in the HOF. I don't buy it either - good assessment you made - the man with the greatest nickname in professional sports history - "Charlie Hustle" - Pete Rose, invalidated his legend and integrity built up over his amazing years as a player, but disgraced himself and the game by controlling the outcomes of them, making money on his team to lose, which he controlled, as a manager. The idea of it sheds some bad light on every statistic of every Cincinnati Red's game ever played with Rose as manager. Not only on the Reds, but on their opponents, who, although they didn't know it, were winning by default and manipulation, rather than talent. If the Dodgers, Cardinals, Giants, etal, swept out the Reds in a championship season during Rose's tenure as manager - what does that really say about baseball - did the best team on the field win? Or did they have it handed to them on a silver platter by a cheater. My remarks on Roger Maris - also a disgrace the HOF Veteran's Committee hasn't put him in. His home run battle with Yankee great Mickey Mantle in 1961, when Maris broke Babe Ruth's record by hitting 61 and Mantle, taking a late season knee injury hit 54 HR's, was THE story of 1961, followed more closely than John Kennedy's first year as President. Maris, BTW, hit a HR out of old Crosley Field in Cincinnati to win one of the World Series games that year as the Yankee's swept Cincinnati away in five games. Right over the RF roof. He was later traded to the St.Louis Cardinals where he had 7-fine seasons with them at 1B, playing in two World Series' to go with those he played in with the Yankees. In his time as a Yankee, Maris hit more HR's than Mickey Mantle, his teammate. Yankee fans would always have accepted a Mantle breaking Ruth's record - but not Roger Maris.
He never bet against his own team - he belongs in the HOF, now a guy like Bonds doesn't because his records are meaningless..
He will have to die before he's got a shot at getting into the HOF. Baseball writers are a conservative lot for the most part and they see themselves as guardians of the integrity of the game. I can't see them voting for Rose anytime soon.
Pete Rose charges for autographs, in fact many athletes and former athletes do. I have no idea why so many support him...he's an ass to the fans. If you charge a kid to sign a baseball, and extort money from a parent so their son or daughter can get a signature from someone they admire. Two words... Screw you. P.S. Not all athletes and former athletes are like this...I'm singling out the jerks who treat fans like wallets...like it's our job to support them because they were too stupid to plan for what happens after the game ends. Go and get a real job like the rest of us. Charging for autographs in some baseball card convention is not a real job.
I've heard the majority of the players and fans want him reinstated. That should be the prime determinant as to whether he is or should be. Therefore, the ban should be completely lifted.
Incorrect. Dawson was elected to the HoF in his ninth year on the ballot. Rose should never be in the Hall of Fame. All his records should be expunged, he should never have been permitted at the All Star game. In baseball, Pete Rose should be a nonperson. In fact, he should be barred from entering any MLB park in any capacity, and should be forcibly removed (and charged with criminal trespass) if he ever enters.
If the Hall of Fame is about greatness as a player, then he should be there. He will eventually be there. It is just a matter of when...he may have to get gender reassignment surgery to get there during his lifetime though.
Well, nobody can vote for Rose into the Hall of Fame, until MLB lifts the life time ban. The voter's for the HOF serve terms, and are members of the Baseball Writer's Of America, one from each city that has a Major League team. The HOF isn't affiliated with MLB, it is its own separate entity, and its rules require you be a member or former member in good standing with the league before you are even nominated for acceptance. The Veteran's Committee is composed of, I think, seven members who put forth several nominations each year, for a certain number of years. That's why it is such a shame Roger Maris isn't in, believe his name has gone past the deadline for being included. Not exactly sure how the Veteran's Committee works, but it is something like that. They are talking about removing 1/3 of the lifetime statistics of the steroid era players when their turn comes up. It won't keep them out, although the committee probably will make them wait a few years (McGuire and Sosa I believe were eligible this year). But removing 1/3 of the stats of the steroid era players, knocks them down the lists, believe Bonds falls to something like 6th on the All Time HR list, returning Hank Aaron to the top. Anyway's, until and if Major League Baseball lifts the ban against Pete Rose, he can't be voted on for membership into the Hall of Fame, and if they do lift the gambling ban penalty - than - logic dictates that the man with the second best statistics overall in the history of the game, "Shoeless" Joe Jackson, who lived out his non-playing years as a bartender, also should go in.........
Meh. I am a N.D. native, and like Maris, but he was no HOF'er. He had a 4 year run which was Hall worthy, but other than that, it was nothing. Derailed by injuries. He does not have the counting stats, does not have the rate stats, does not have the AS recognition. I am actually surprised he was pulling 40% of the vote at the end of his 15 years.
No betting on games. Period. For or against. There is no grey area. - - - Updated - - - He will go in once he is dead.
When I go to halls of fame (I haven't been to Cooperstown) I want to see the best ballplayers. Period. End of sentence. Everything else is drama.
There might as well not be a Hall of Fame if they exclude Charlie Hustle. He was a ballplayer's ballplayer.
Do you have any evidence that he ever gave anything less than 100% while he was between the lines? Did he ever bag a game? Don't get me too far wrong, I hated the guy when he was playing.
Not the point. He had it all to gain, just telling the truth at the get go. But 20 years of lying was what ended it. Now more info is coming out. Cooperstown don't need him. He needed Cooperstown more than they needed him.
I despised Pete Rose growing up. I still remember when he tangled with Bud Harrelson back in the day, always going into 2nd with spikes up. But that was because I was a kid who didn't like any of the opposing teams' great players. Now? I think he deserves to get in. Enough is enough. So he lied? Big deal. He deserves to be in. Just my opinion.
Not the point, either. Cooperstown is not a church. It's a shrine to great baseball. If we're going to leave out players because they lied about betting, we might as well leave out the players who cheat on their wives while on road trips.
He bet on baseball which sets up enough doubt to infer his actions could directly effect the outcome of a game as it related to who he bet on. That's a big no no for any sport. On the merits of his talent he deserves the HoF, however saying he's not getting in because of character flaws is not telling the whole truth. He bet on baseball, on games in which he was a participant...a Manager is participating in the game. Anyone with common sense knows this is asking for trouble. What if he owed his bookie a lot of money? The potential was there to influence a game to favor a bet he made. No one cares he was a gambler, the fact he bet on the game, on games he was in...is why he is not in...in addition to being universally despised outside of Cincinnati. However Ty Cobb is in, and even Pete Rose can't match the level of a horse's patoot that Ty Cobb was.
Sandy Koufax only had five years that were memorable but is in the HOF. Maris would have hit closer to 70 HRs in 1961 but pitchers refused to throw the fast ball down the middle as they were afraid of his awesome pull swing. Further it is an established fact that he played with a broken hand (he got hit in the hand by a pitch during this era when bean ball was still legal) and that NY Yankees management refused to disclose it. Because he had so little feeling in his hand he threw out his shoulder thereby diminishing his out put. Maris could easily have hit another 100 career HRs and had several more productive years if he had not gotten cheated as he was by the team's ownership. Except for Al Kaline and Roberto Clemente, nobody played better defense in RF than did Maris. Maris belongs in the HOF.
Koufax had a 6 year period that ranks in a very short list of greatest runs in baseball history. Maris had 2 years, only one of which was at all historic. Koufax has HOF rate numbers. Maris does not. As for the injury and how the Yankees handled it, that has no bearing on his HOF status. As for defense, he was underappreciated, but by no means a top 3 RF.
Any evidence that he ever bet on his team to lose? If he bet on his team to lose and then tanked a game, I'd be on your side. Otherwise, he'd just be playing harder. And, I think you'd admit, MOST sports figures, including those in the various halls of fame, are not paragons of virtue.
