Planned Parenthood Official Argues for Right to Post-Birth Abortion

And besides, facts would just confuse you.

 

No there was no answer just an obfuscation by deflection.

No it is not, Not morally. Not legally.

No not quite. It established a no very defined "right to privacy" and said that the decission to have a child was a private matter therefore government could not intercede in that decision...........................well up to a point.

And that faulty decision has led us into bad law with the question still open. If you are following the gay marriage issue then perhaps you have heard legal scholars caution against the SCOTUS making the same mistake in trying to force the issue on the citizens.

Yes they didn't just come out and say a woman has a right to kill her baby, they created a "right to privacy" and then turned their backs on the real issue.

Doctors and the manner in which they practice their trade are heavily regulated by government and can only operate under an appropriate government license.

You had better believe that every hospital has a medical board that reviews the practices of every doctor practicing within it's organization.

No the responisibilty includes the clinic or hospital providing the services to the patient and the attending physician.

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Why is it not murder once the baby is born?

 

Exactly. But isn't that what you're calling "murder" if that's done immediately after birth? "On the table" I believe the term was? Anencephalic babies are born without a skull or brain. If their brain stem is developed enough that they can breathe "on the table" and heroic life-saving measures are not used to keep it breathing, is that "murder"? What's the difference doing it then and waiting until it has an adult body? Babies born with Harlequin Ichthyosis have a short life span in most cases but however long they live, they're in horrible pain and require constant medical attention. Why is it "murder" to let them die sooner rather than later after spending what time they do have in agony with the parents suffering along with them - both emotionally and financially?

Children and adults are allowed to die (the "plug is pulled") when they have diseases/illnesses/accidents that put them in a brain dead situation or when it's determined that further heroic measures will not extend or improve their lives and only keep them breathing and they will have no concept of life or ever recover. Why is that NOT "murder"? Why is it only murder when a fetus is born already brain dead or so grossly deformed that it can't be helped and whatever life span it has will be spent in agony?

 

AnnaK has been providing you post after post of facts. Apparently they confuse you. Try reading them again.

 

That's the sensible way, is it not?

Assuming some mother actually wanted her healthy child alive and kicking,
I see no need for lawmakers.

?? Ummm....no. It wouldn't.

I'm saying healthy viable newborns, like the one I cited that needed time in the incubator but turned out ultimately to be completely fine, need someone to stick up for their interests, should the mother and doctor not feel so inclined.

If that's what Planned Parenthood wants then I am with them. Given their extremist history, however, I'm not sure they want what's best for the child. The Illinois Planned Parenthood lauded Senator Obama for killing Born Alive legislation in their state.

I wouldn't argue too hard here.

Very well but the devil is always in the details. I don't think any parent would want a child profoundly deformed (w/o a brain, for instance). On the other hand does a child with mild deformities (crippled legs, for instance) instantly deserve death in a doctor's eyes? That's a parent's call.

I have to review Planned Parenthood's position on this. To keep a hopeless
husk of a person alive is senseless, but does Planned Parenthood err on the side of life for marginal yet generally viable children? This is the test.

 

As I have said many times, there must be a special place for abortion doctors in Hell, right next to Hitler and Stalin!!!

 

Absolutely. Now you need to get some of our fanatics to understand.

At that or any other time. As AnnaK keeps telling us, very very very very few women are willing to go through an ALMOST complete pregnancy if the child is unwanted. Nearly every unwanted pregnancy is terminated as early as practically feasible. If the child is healthy, then, you'd have to look long and hard to find any woman or her doctor who would suddenly and unexpectedly decide Nah, we changed our mind.

Right. Panels are not required.

But in practice, the mother and doctor are almost never so inclined. Almost always, if a healthy newborn can be saved, they are overjoyed. It's exactly what they wanted. You are focusing on what is in practice an extremely rare event, and ignoring the overwhelming majority of cases.

For the very reasons we've been discussing here. One-size-fits-all legislation, especially in these cases, is foolish and misguided. So what Planned Parenthood wants is exactly what we've been agreeing on here - that each case should be decided by those most intimately familiar with it, on a case by case basis. PP does not have an "extremist history" in any way, but they are smeared that way by the fanatical "zero tolerance" anti-abortion fanatics. PP wants what is best for all concerned, in the opinion of those concerned. Not in the opinion of religious extremists or ignorant legislators.

Yes, exactly so. The doctor provides technical advice - here is what can be done, here is what it will cost, here is what can't be done, here is what sort of life the child faces, etc. Armed with this information, the mother makes an informed choice.

Planned Parenthood is NOT the ones making this decision. Ever. Planned Parenthood is defending the rights of those involved to make personal decisions personally.

To draw a loose parallel, the phone company has been sued for facilitating murder in cases where the murderers conspired over the phone. And the ruling is, the phone company is a "common carrier" who provides a service, but has no control over how that service is used. Planned Parenthood is in this same position. They offer a variety of services, do NOT make ANY decisions about how those services are used, but do fight to protect the rights of those who use the services to make personal decisions. The real test is, will lawmakers allow individuals to make personal decisions contrary to the religious convictions of the lawmakers. And that's a real important test.

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Yep. Things are so consarn SIMPLE when you don't have to think about them because your ideology trumps all possible facts.

 

You're dam right he doesn't.... I will NEVER forget that interview he had w/Rick Warren during the 08 campaign when Warren asked him if a baby survives the abortion attempt, is born alive, needs medical help - would Obama want the child to get the help he needed. Very simple question, nothing confusing about it...

Obama stuttered, he stammered, he hemmed, he hawed, he grunted, he groaned..... he would NOT answer that question. Finally he mumbled 'that question is above my pay rate' or some cowardly nonsense...

The more I watched him during the 08 campaign, the more I distrusted him - then that interview happened w/Warren, which further confirmed my tho'ts about him...

And that's the kind of leader we have - someone who'd turn his back on a newborn needing his help. And the libs just love him.....

 

And now here you have an extensive thread, providing you far more detail than anyone could ever have provided in a sound bite, showing you that your position is both cruel and simplistic. But ideology comes from the lizard brain, which trumps the intellect whenever you let it. As we see.

 

What did you WANT him to say? That no matter for what medical reasons the abortion was being done and no matter the medical condition of the fetus, he would try every heroic measure to keep a baby with no brain alive with no input from the doctor or the parents who will be responsible for the financial and caretaking responsibilities whether they have any chance of being able to meet them or not? That there should be a law REQUIRING grossly deformed fetuses to be born and kept alive at all costs whether they have no brain or a condition that will require a lifetime of operations and growing up in a hospital in pain and suffering? A law that gives no consideration whatsoever to individual circumstances and the effect a child with no hope for any kind of normal life would have on a family? For instance a couple who already has 2 children to raise and WANTED a third child - who both work to give their family a decent standard of living and give their already living children opportunities for an education and fulfilling life - but will be reduced to living in poverty as a result of medical and caretaking responsibilities and cause their other children to have no chance of going to college or opportunities other children have? Where's the pro-life compassion for the already living?

All this ranting and raving about "murder" and desperation to pass laws to FORCE others to give up all rights to make their own life decisions for their own reasons and the welfare of their own families is appalling and disgusting.

 

It wasn't a 'fetus' - it was a full-term, viable newborn who survived. Rick Warren's question gave NO description of the newborn's condition - only that the infant needed some 'medical help'.... and Obama asked NO questions as to the condition of the newborn - all he did was grunt and stammer, then took the coward's way out.......

I have watched a few interviews of people who survived abortion attempts and they grew up to be normal, functioning people w/o any mental or physical handicaps....

As far as grossly deformed babies or those who are obviously profoundly retarded - that's a different situation, which I have no argument w/you about...... so save your drama.

 

Their hosts saw them as parasites and they were targeted for eradication. They are no different from the aliens in the Alien Movies! It just takes one of them to attack all of mankind.

 

And at what age do you want us to not resuscitate preemies? Do you want ALL "micro-premies" put through full range of medical intervention??

BTW - lotsa luck trying to resus something smaller than a jelly bean

 

And there is only a handful in the world - most do NOT survive and that is because abortion is mostly illegal after the age of viability

R v W does not apply after about week 24

 

It seems to be the opinion of many here that no matter how grossly deformed a baby is in the womb, once born it will miraculously be whole, healthy and normal - making the mother and doctor "murderers" of a child who could have otherwise led a perfectly normal and healthy life. FTLOG![/QUOTE]

Actually just the opposite is what's being discussed and trying to distort it with specific terms such as "grossly deformed baby in the womb" is totally off target. Perhaps you shoulds go back, read the original post and reload.

 

I guess it is that since the baby survived the abortion attempt, the baby killers at Planned Parenthood are afraid that they wont get paid for an abortion. It shows everyone just how low PP has sunk. When a baby is born alive in a late term abortion, if the mother wants the baby killed the PP doctor becomes a hit man killer!!!!!

 

We are talking about babies who are premies but when born are alive and breathing on their own.

My God the left really has no knowledge of science at all.

 

Not under the conditions I stated. My comments are specific to a baby or a person being declared brain dead.

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Obfuscation noted.

 

They don't need science when they have emotions. They only pretend to need science if they require an article to quote in an evolution thread. Beyond that science should always be trumped by political correctness because it is infinitely more important to spare liberal feelings than be physiologically or scientifically correct.

 

And exactly how many are we talking about - healthy, normal newborns who survive an abortion done to save the mother's life/health? Exactly how many normal, healthy newborns are "murdered" because they survive? How many are NOT "murdered" when both mother and child miraculously survive?

The problem here as I see it is that so many people have fallen for the BS drivel that women and doctors - being inherently evil and homicidal maniacs - conspire to perform abortions for some trivial reason at a stage in a pregnancy where the fetus is viable, normal and healthy and want to "kill it" if it survives.

IMO, this has nothing to do with science. It has to do with life and death of the mother/infant and an agonizing decision to abort a wanted, planned pregnancy because something horrible has gone wrong that makes the decision necessary.

My God - the Right has no knowledge of what happens in these cases and doesn't WANT to know - they'd rather use it to demonize Obama and Liberals and the Hell with the mothers and infants and doctors who are going through such pain and suffering. Just curious - is it also your belief that ONLY Liberal mothers face these decisions - that if they weren't evil and always looking for a baby to kill, the problem would be solved because Conservative women would NEVER choose to abort a pregnancy to save their own lives or prevent a grossly deformed child from living in pain and suffering? And you're PROUD of that?

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And exactly how many are we talking about - healthy, normal newborns who survive an abortion done to save the mother's life/health? Exactly how many normal, healthy newborns are "murdered" because they survive? How many are NOT "murdered" when both mother and child miraculously survive?

The problem here as I see it is that so many people have fallen for the BS drivel that women and doctors - being inherently evil and homicidal maniacs - conspire to perform abortions for some trivial reason at a stage in a pregnancy where the fetus is viable, normal and healthy and want to "kill it" if it survives.

IMO, this has nothing to do with science. It has to do with life and death of the mother/infant and an agonizing decision to abort a wanted, planned pregnancy because something horrible has gone wrong that makes the decision necessary.

My God - the Right has no knowledge of what happens in these cases and doesn't WANT to know - they'd rather use it to demonize Obama and Liberals and the Hell with the mothers and infants and doctors who are going through such pain and suffering. Just curious - is it also your belief that ONLY Liberal mothers face these decisions - that if they weren't evil and always looking for a baby to kill, the problem would be solved because Conservative women would NEVER choose to abort a pregnancy to save their own lives or prevent a grossly deformed child from living in pain and suffering? And you're PROUD of that?

 

You are not listening to anything we are saying. It happens ALOT that babies are born after a botched abortion, and are living human beings.

IT is sad, very sad that you see no problem with murder. I am not talking about abortion when its just a few weeks along, but the "letting die" of a new born that lives through an abortion, is out of the womb and is breathing on its own.

You people make me (*)(*)(*)(*)ing sick.

 

You're a little confused, aren't you? It's the Right who refuses to believe in any kind of science and relies on their religious beliefs to form their opinions and who believe that the already living gave up their "right to life" when they came out of the womb.

And I have no idea what political correctness has to do with what we're discussing here. What exactly do "feelings" have to do with a medical decision made by a woman and her doctor concerning the lives and health of either the mother or the fetus?

 

Actually just the opposite is what's being discussed and trying to distort it with specific terms such as "grossly deformed baby in the womb" is totally off target. Perhaps you shoulds go back, read the original post and reload.[/QUOTE]

And perhaps we should all take a good look at the research that states that a vast majority of "babies" aborted post viability are incompatible with life

 

"A lot"? So you have no idea how often this happens - you're just pretty sure that it happens "a lot" and if it's a normal, healthy baby - the mother and doctor immediately want to kill it? Where do you get this crap?

A fetus with no skull or brain can breathe on its own if it has a brain stem. If knowing the baby's physical condition was the reason for the late term abortion, you consider it murder to let the fetus pass away peacefully - knowing it had 0 chance for any kind of life? How long would you keep its body breathing - until it's an adult?

And you people make ME (*)(*)(*)(*)ing sick. You have no knowledge of what you're talking about and absolutely no compassion at all for the people who have to go through these agonizing decisions so you call them "murderers".

Poetic justice would be one of you having to face this decision yourselves and find to your horror that you've supported a law passed that prevents you from making your own decision in your own circumstances and considering the welfare of your own family and you're at the mercy of that law with no recourse. That's what you're trying to do to others because you think it will never happen to you or your family.

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"A lot"? So you have no idea how often this happens - you're just pretty sure that it happens "a lot" and if it's a normal, healthy baby - the mother and doctor immediately want to kill it? Where do you get this crap?

A fetus with no skull or brain can breathe on its own if it has a brain stem. If knowing the baby's physical condition was the reason for the late term abortion, you consider it murder to let the fetus pass away peacefully - knowing it had 0 chance for any kind of life? How long would you keep its body breathing - until it's an adult?

And you people make ME (*)(*)(*)(*)ing sick. You have no knowledge of what you're talking about and absolutely no compassion at all for the people who have to go through these agonizing decisions so you call them "murderers".

Poetic justice would be one of you having to face this decision yourselves and find to your horror that you've supported a law passed that prevents you from making your own decision in your own circumstances and considering the welfare of your own family and you're at the mercy of that law with no recourse. That's what you're trying to do to others because you think it will never happen to you or your family.

 

Actually it does not happen "a lot" in fact it is RARE and increasingly so

Most of these so called survivors happen because they were NOT aborted because the procedure failed - the "abortion survivors network" has eight people listed - just eight out of 42 MILLION abortions per year??

Of those most date from the 70's or earlier before there was ultrasonic scans

A couple are questionable as to whether they actually happened (no records)
Of those only two were "late term abortions" and those were for mistaken gestational age

But this thread is about LATE TERM ABORTION - why? because it is far more emotive than early stage abortion

And it ignores the fact that the vast majority of late term (post viability) abortions are done for developmental abnormality incompatible with life