How's everyone going? There's so many threads here I feel bit giddy. Just wanted to create a pause.... or some space... just to say hi. It's been back to winter here in Sydney lately... unbelievably having to wear jackets in November. (!) Have lost interest in arguing or feeling incredulous with anyone on political forums any more. Something wore off as far as whatever had motivated me before. Funny, that stuff. Anyway, HI.
An interesting political-type quote: A reporter interviewing A.J. Muste, who during the Vietnam War stood in front of the White House night after night with a candle, one rainy night asked, "Mr. Muste, Do you really think you are going to change the policies of this country by standing out here alone at night with a candle?" Muste replied, "Oh, I don't do it to change the country, I do it so the country won't change me.
Have lost interest in arguing or feeling incredulous with anyone on political forums any more. Something wore off as far as whatever had motivated me before. Granny says dat's what happens... ... when ya repent o' bein' a lib'ral.
Hi Gwendo, there are some incredible people on this forum, and one of them is you for sure. I know how you feel far too well. I sometimes have looked for the unsubscribe or final exit button but haven't found it so far..... Yes, I agree, there are too many threads for quite some time, and not too much in depth reports.... The beauty is missing, and I struggle to face the extreme right wingers. No beauty in those discussions, and no insight. Hopefully things will come back to normal one day.... I wish you a beautiful Sunday, cheerio from WA
Hi Gwendoline...hope you are well and this cheers you up a bit....cheers... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJRbvgJhR-U
'The beauty is missing...' Such an interesting take on it, m2catter. Maybe to do with nuanced, complex, thoughtful thinking... and much else, too. To do with looking deeper than the surface level of things. In the 7 years I've been on this forum I can't say I've changed any of my perceptions / opinions or been swayed from any 'convincing' argument/idea from any right winger. If anything, they inadvertently 'increased' my resolve and conviction on the path. It is great to have shared this place with you and others here. I enjoy your posts a lot and it was interesting during the burka debate to hear your views and those of others here. That was a lively discussion... and also a really complex issue, I think. Such a strange old world. I wish you a wonderful week, m2catter. Ciao.
Thanks, mister magoo, that's a great tune. I enjoy your posts - especially when you get on a roll and 'go for it'.
Well that perked up my Monday morning on PF Nothing like a bit of sanity before heading off to the hamster wheel. I found that I need to be selective in PF now. I tend to read but not comment in the domestic politics of other countries - meaning the US at the moment, others are not immune from my not-so-withering gaze. Our politics are in a hiatus. Mal's honeymoon. Normal service will probably be resumed after the Silly Season. Nice to see you post again Gwendoline. And a hello to all fellow Aus posters of whatever political persuasion. Here in Adelaide it's going to be another stinker of a day. 36 today, 21 overnight. Jeez I may as well go back to Darwin for a while
Yeap Gwendo, I agree, most often we don't change ourselves or our perception of things. On one subject however I am not so sure anymore, when it comes to refugees. We had a German tourist at our joint, and while we agreed on that those pure bastards from Afghan, Iraq and Syria needed help and shelter, he was saying that too many can cause a country to really slow down, in many ways. Maybe he is/was right. Maybe we all need to think of solutions, once a war is over. Send them back? Send only those back, which are not productive, haven't found a job? While we both agreed on that the nations responsible for those wars (and I guess you know whom I mean) should take an awful lot more, a solution for the long term must be found. Which of course can never be a stop the boats coward action...... So I think in an overcrowded world riddled by wars we need to stay open minded, but humanists as well.... Cheerio
I'm really pleased you have accepted the idea that "everyone" needs help and shelter. Its a bit sad when Australian politicians and some Australian people are willing to offer help and shelter to refugees and asylum seekers, but not be willing to offer the same help and shelter to Australia's 300,000 homeless citizens, or Australia's 800,000 low income families on waiting lists for public housing. When there is not enough Australian tax payers money to fund refugees and the Australian homeless and poor citizens, then surely, Australia's tax payers money should have priority in funding its own homeless and poor citizens before refugees? Another $700 million of Australian tax payer money made available to 12,000 Syrian refugees for new cloths, new furniture, and accommodation. I think some of Australia's homeless and poor people would like these generous benefits. It say's a lot about the character of a countries people, when they are willing the help and shelter refugees and asylum seekers before their own homeless and poor citizens. Politicians grandiose themselves by squandering tax payers money on refugees before the countries homeless and destitute citizens for international and UN acceptance, but what excuse do the Australian people have for doing the same thing?
Well that lost the 'politics aside' part pretty quickly, well done m2 and Gwen. ... but Yes, when people start arguing against projected stereotypes instead of having discussions with the actual people, that tends to happen - its like talking to oneself and wondering why other people don't answer I guess.... though some folk only like chatting with people who agree with them so it explains why a few might get upset in an open political forum, and get all clique'y and form adhoc support groups. LOL Of course this might just be an 'extreme right wing' view on it. But seriously, it happens on both sides and in between. Oh, and hi.
This was never "politics aside", I am a little surprised you thought different. Obviously when people want to pretend they are something different to the reality of what they truly are, some liberties are taken with the reality of what they do. of course ANYBODY who does not agree with this one is of the EXTREME right wing so they can justify why they are unable to support their own claims or refute what is put to them, all they have is to insult and pretend. IS it not politics to simply attack anybody who you do not agree with because you dislike them??? And before anybody starts about the intent of the comments, THIS is obviously designed to attack the people who this person does not like by placing them into a different political persuasion which is supposedly against the original premise. And what is this comment??? Nothing but support for blind attack on anything which these people do not agree with. "Politics Aside" My arse... These people cannot even have a reasonable conversation without attacking anybody who does not agree with them... So I think you can understand the from the very get go, this was projected stereo-typical attack on who these people THINK is opposite to them. Rather than a discussion. I often wonder, HOW these people align their associates and friends. Do they actually count or discount people due to their beliefs compared to their own. As Gwen states In the 7 years I've been on this forum I can't say I've changed any of my perceptions / opinions or been swayed from any 'convincing' argument/idea from any right winger. Well who is a convincing right winger??? After all the thread created to attack the Howard intervention was quickly abandoned due to the fact the premise of the thread was shown to be false Simply put the creator and others ran from the evidence rather than face the fact they made false claims. No, it is strange you would actually consider decent discussion from people who wish to project their own judgement of others standards and opinions which maybe higher or lower than their own into right wing left wing or just any stereo-type because it differs from their own...
Yes Gwen, nothing more needs to be said, as demonstrated. The last thing in life you should do is being honest, what a sad experience. Our vultures are never asleep..... Regards
Just got a chance to Visit the forum after a couple of days and low and behold the forum is flooded with countless threads again. Poor guy must be bored Sh!!tless! Anyway, some people just try to be articulate but come across as irritably extraneous, which dampens any motivation to respond because you'd have to sift through their garbage in an attempt to find something worthwhile responding too. Always love reading what you and a few others have to say, it's alway passionate and heartfelt. Always a good change from the visceral of the hard right who just whinge, whine and pick with menial senselessness.
It's called projection, what happens with the lefties here. They act one way and when its pointed out they blame the person pointing it out for doing it because they are pointing it out... its boring when its deliberate, but its hilarious and sad when its not. I thought the thread was politics aside but it quickly went into 'right winger' hating. Pointing that out is not whinging and menial senselessness - its just pointing out hypocrisy. How serious is the hypocrisy, well that ends up being decided by how upset they get when its pointed out to them. When cheerleaders jump in to support the hypocrisy its very cute, but its not a popularity contest - numbers dont change truth. I'd rather be alone and right, then in a group of people clinging to being wrong. But everyone is a bit hypocritical, but not everyone lives and breaths it.... like some seem too here sometimes
I think you'll find the nature of those that are supposedly lefties in your eyes are simply people who consider all people not just themselves. The hard right are about attacking the most vulnerable and marginalised in society. If people are "supposedly" lefties because they stand up against the school hard bully who picks on the most vulnerable, then in your eyes, I guess I'm a lefty. You will find the only attacks against people from the supposed left are against the hard right bullies who love nothing more than kicking the head in of the weak geeky guy or fat kid because they can. Hypocrisy???maybe, but on a totally different level to the the "extreme" right!
Call me the male version of Pollyanna but in my more generous moments I look at the right and I think nah, they don't really hate the vulnerable and marginalised. They may despise them, have contempt for them, but not hate. What happens to the vulnerable and marginalised is that the right's social philosophy ends up doing them over. I'm sure the right don't mean it though. It's sort of collateral damage. I think this is why the right insists that it's policies are just in line with human nature. A pretty weak argument of course, but it probably helps them.
I believe this is the epitome of the problem in the political system today. On these pages we see more and more people projecting (for lack of better term) what they believe onto somebody else... Who is assuming what people believe??? As you say the far right are just about attacking the vulnerable. And the left because they stand up against such thought. So you accuse huge amount of the population of being evil hearted people because you have to oppose anything that disagree due to some self-imposed ideal that only you have the answer. The premise of your comment is that only YOU think of the vulnerable and that others want them to disappear for their own gain. I wish life was so simple… SO what is the difference of left and right side of politics??? NOT humanity, not belief in who should live or die but the belief on how to get the best for the entire population. I do have to question the Greens on that last point as often they make reference to picking and choosing WHO deserves what in the Australian system, but that is another story. Many times I have seen the hypocrisy of others on how to achieve certain outcomes and when I object I am this or that because I oppose them. Yes, I am not kind in doing so but that generally stems from the incredulous way in which things are discussed. Mostly, however, people simply choose to categorise their hatred of others for demonstrating their hypocrisy or just flat out lie. Should anybody actually oppose something that they believe in their heart to be wrong others will simply take an opposing stance (even when it contradicts their own). The stupid part is, here you say you stand up for the weak geeky guy or fat kid because they are the targets of the far right. Have I got news for you, it is those geeky guys and fat kids the far left want to pretend to protect and the very people you attack. Why, these are the people who grew up with the far left taunts, sitting excluded from joining in because they were different. Now they have a voice and seem to want to extract some vengeance. They are not the people you want to pretend you support; they are simply your ideal of what you think you are doing. Perhaps if you thought about it, you might see how stupid this projection of right wing and left wing actually is.
The left against bullies, now you are kidding...right? Where did the left (ALP or Greens) demand justice for hard working Australians and vulnerable Australians, when Craig (poker) Thompson ripped of $100K in Union fees from the members, and only received a $25K fine and NO sentence? Where is justice for the citizens from the left (ALP & Greens Party) for the ten of millions of discarded "eco" light bulbs now in land fill that are leaking toxic mercury into the land and underground water supplies, thanks to a hair-brain Greens Party environmental plan that has gone horribly wrong? Remember the Greens attacking everyone about their energy use, and forcing them to use and convert to these "eco" bulbs? Then you accuse the LNP of doing the same thing, but never want to hold your own mob accountable or responsible for any mistakes they make. There is a phrase and word for that!!
I purposely use the term "extreme or hard" right to differentiate between the many balanced thinkers to the left of the "hard" right, which includes the right, who are incapacitated by their own visceral, which obviously can't be helped because their brains are wired with fear, which is their political crutch rather than the ability to deduce. I certainly don't see all those who sit in the right challenged by the ability to reason and certainly don't hate the "extreme" right but seriously shake my head in disbelief at the shallow level of reasoning. Some use the excuse that they are about protecting all people, but who is "all people"??? A select few who fit in their category of worthwhile human beings. Who are worthwhile human beings???? The weak and vulnerable need help and opportunity, the same that was forthcoming to them and their foremothers and forefathers. The way some of these people think, they've convinced themselves that they come from royalty. I certainly don't see all those in opposition to the so called lefties on here as hard right but if the cap fits, then why not wear it!
Again we see an attempt to justify the stereo-typing others, for their own pre-determination of their opinion. This comes from peoples own bias toward others whom they do not believe would agree with them. We also see a justification for the hatred one feels toward others who do not agree with them. When statements such as Some use the excuse that they are about protecting all people, but who is "all people"??? A select few who fit in their category of worthwhile human beings. We see that the person making such justification are doing so on their understanding of what has been put. I am not sure how simpler it could be made, but the only real difference between the so called right and left (be it extreme or not) is HOW they do the job, NOT who they want to help. When people make such distinctions it is obvious that they believe this situation is acceptable, As long as the distinction goes to their own personal beliefs. I honestly believe this is of minority thought, but prevalent enough to have acceptance by considerable amount of people. Those who do think for themselves, understand that no matter what side of politics you stand on, this is nothing more than corruption and that people, politicians and parties should be gaoled for such actions and call it so. I look to the Greens of the last couple years for this typical type of situation. Hearing debate on immigration where a particular Greens member stated that the government should accept asylum seekers looking to their qualifications and bank balances. Comment on other debate determining who doctors should treat and who they should not and medical insurance should be offered to some and not others. So when I hear somebody stereo-typing others and complaining that there is a distinction of who is what, I can only compare them to the Greens. Attempts to categorise others into this and that and then complaining of superficial perception of others is considerably oblivious of the real situation. Again if you look at the political system in Australia you will see all parties complain of right wing and left wing within their own party. When you actually look to the policies of BOTH the main parties, you see very similar policies. In fact the similarities are so near to each other comparisons have been made to being voting for the same no matter who is elected. So one has to ask, if these parties are so similar in ideals and beliefs how can one determine the right and left??? Obviously, here it is by personal preference and not from the reality of opinion OR belief. So when somebody asks, but if the cap fits, then why not wear it We can see the cap is simply the design of the person who is labelling (or attempting to create the stereo-type) NOT the reality of the situation. Pray tell, if the person agrees with you do they suddenly become left wing until they disagree with you??? So when people are stereo-typing other, the epitome of superficiality, one is wondering just how they reason their own understanding of anybody they believe to be of different opinion and belief form themselves who brings to the table better ideas and results??? Or do they simply change their political persuasion to suite the situation??? One just wonders.
Wow, all this rectifying.... I seems some wouldn't even see trees while standing in the middle of a forest. Maybe it is all coming down to perception, and nothing else.... To all of you in an very unpolitical way, have a great day! Cheerio
WOW, When all people have is nothing but insult this is what they produce. One wonders just how a sycophant reconciles their own incredulous ability by attempt to demeaning others with their supposed ideals ??? IN a very unpolitical way, I was just wondering Cheerio
Sometime you just have to because some people have such low intellect, they will never be able to understand or comprehend there is no such thing as "left"and "right"politics. Its a merry-go-round of flawed ideologies that's been in constant motion for Centuries, and nothing much has psychologically changed within either of the "left"or "right" political ideologies". The reason why the ideologies have not changed, is because the "left"& "right"arms of the body cannot change ideologies, when the string pullers behind the curtain will not let them change. We have all seen how out-of-date and stagnant politicians and their political ideas have become, when it comes to what our society and communities really require. The LNP and ALP/Unions/Greens political factions are the left and right ideologies of the same twisted and distorted singular (doctrine) that is being manipulated by the money people behind the curtains pulling the strings.
