Pro choice people eventually become pro life

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Josephwalker, Jun 23, 2019.

  1. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    You said abortion legislation is government overreach. At some point during pregnancy we all agree or at least 92% of us agree the fetus becomes a baby. Aborting a baby is murder so I didn't move the goal post an inch.
     
  2. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    You know what, you are correct and I misread the statistic I keep referring to. It's actually 18% not 8% that think life begins at birth. All the people I've been debating this subject with thus far must have also misread as I did or more likely didn't even read the link. It's still a small minority though that think life begins at birth so the other 82% are in agreement that life begins before birth.



    "18% think that it only begins at the moment of birth."

    Government statistics put the slightly different question a bit higher when they ask broadly about abortion rights and 20% believe abortion at any point during pregnancy is acceptable. Still a minority but actually surprisingly high in my opinion.



    "From YouGov: “Asked broadly about abortion rights, 56% of Americans think that abortion should not be legal on request, with 17% saying that it should never be allowed and 39% saying that it should only be allowed in certain special cases. 16% support abortion until the first trimester, while 9% support it until the point of survivability. 20% believe that abortion should always be legal.”
     
  3. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    :) So, according to your stats here, most people are Pro-Choice :)
     
  4. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Did a little more research on this and the %18- 20% number seems about right but the good news is 66% believe abortion on demand should be banned after 20 weeks


    "About 66 percent of adults said abortion should be banned after 20 weeks except to save the life of the mother, while 18 percent said abortion should be allowed any time until birth."

    Further, 80 percent of respondents would like to see abortion limited to the first three months of pregnancy at most. The number represents a 5-percentage point increase since January.

    https://www.americamagazine.org/pol...s-democrats-and-young-people-reject-late-term
     
  5. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Up until the end of first trimester yes then most people are pro life which dovetails nicely with the OP. See post #79.



     
  6. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    And another statistic on this says only 13% support late term abortion so it looks like somewhere between 13% and 20% with multiple sources and I stand by my OP that the vast majority at some point before birth become pro life.

    "According to a Gallup poll conducted in May 2018, a clear majority of Americans — 60 percent — said abortion should be legal in the first trimester. However, support fell to 13 percent when participants were asked about terminations in the third trimester"

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-p...choice-pro-life-sides/?utm_term=.20fc41eae1fc
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  7. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    :) So, according to your stats here, most people are Pro-Choice :)


    Hey, how's that reversal of RvW going ? :)
     
  8. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, your opinion and the government has no business in the uteri of free people. That is why you had to move the goal post to murder, robbery, and rape. (All of which force ones intentions onto another.)

    [
    Hows that big powerful government thing going?
     
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most people are now in favor of fairly liberal legalization of abortion. I am a staunchly against the anti abortionists but - even I admit that there are good arguments for personhood prior to birth. At the same time - there are no good arguments in the early stages of pregnancy.

    The majority is for legalized abortion in the early stages of pregnancy - long after what the recent legislation in Missouri proposes. This is then an anathema to our system of justice and the founding principles (regardless of one's moral position).

    The main point I was making however is that citing these statistics as if this has some bearing on the legitimacy of a certain argument is fallacy. It is an appeal to popularity.

    The masses are notoriously under-educated with respect to the abortion issue and certainly with respect to personhood arguments.

    This is then like taking a poll among kindergarten students - asking them what they think of the chances of the Packers winning the superbowl is. What value are these statistics and what do they prove - other than what meaningless thoughts of a child are.
     
  10. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    That is no surprise that most people don’t support third trimester abortions if the fetus is healthy and the woman is healthy..But those don’t happen and it’s just another strawman
     
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  11. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Yes they are until after the first trimester and then it starts falling off until by the 3rd trimester 80% are pro life pretty much as I said in the OP.
     
  12. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    What you are missing is at some point before birth the fetus is a human being and last time I looked killing a human being is murder
     
  13. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    The statistics speak for themselves and all the OP did was point out the fact that as time goes on during a pregnancy people switch position from pro choice to pro life until finally by the third trimester nearly everyone is pro life or anti abortion if you will.
     
  14. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Even if that were true( and it isn't)....you still have no point.
     
  15. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Whether it happens or not by the third trimester the vast majority of people have switched from pro choice to pro life exactly as I stated in the OP.
     
  16. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    If you have statistics different than mine feel free to present them. I've given three sources and they all say by the third trimester only 13%-20% of people have remained pro choice so just as stated in the OP the vast majority of us at some point between conception and birth become pro life.
     
  17. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    NO, Pro-Choicers do NOT become stupid because they apply reasonable limitations...
     
  18. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    While at the same time those same people are pro-choice for the thousands of other fetus and embryos that have not reached viability. You can argue this till you're blue in the face, doesn't change the basic concept of pro-choice.
     
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  19. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. Just as I am pro choice until the end of the first trimester people switch to pro life as the pregnancy matures in each individual pregnancy. Many of us switch sides at that point and the next big switch to pro life seems to come around the twenty week mark where the babies life is sustainable outside the womb and byy the third trimester around 80% of people are pro life so it would be said that for the majority of pregnancy the majority of people are pro life.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  20. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    It's silly to argue from a stance of there only being one fetus in the world when you are discussing pro-choice vs anti-abortion.
    But if that's what floats your boat, carry on.
     
  21. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    One fetus or billions of fetuses at some point before birth the vast majority become pro life and it could be said that the majority of people are pro life in pregnancy the majority of the time because after the first trimester the majority becomes pro life and as pregnancy matures those numbers just get bigger. That would make 80% of us more pro life than pro choice.
     
  22. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    If you want to mentally-masturbate in such terms, go ahead. Really doesn't impact the abortion debate nor change people's minds. It is what it is.
     
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  23. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is what it is and it's just a basic undeniable truth that as pregnancy matures the vast majority of us become pro life. That is not meant to change people's minds but it does point out something that many people that call themselves pro choice feel uncomfortable with and that is that at some point they too become pro life. Something for each individual to process and make of what they will on both sides of the debate and could stop some of the emotion based mud slinging by both sides. At some point during pregnancy 80% of us agree and are pro life and that fact should lessen tensions with each other in rational thinking people.
     
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The statistics prove that most people are in favor of legalized abortion in the early term - the first trimester. The statistics do not prove that people turn "Pro Life" = against all abortion. Just because someone is morally against abortion in the later stages - does not make someone "Pro Life". The anti abort movement wants to criminalize terminating zygotes for goodness sake.

    Second - just because someone has a moral position with respect to abortion - does not mean that this person agrees with legal action - law against abortion. These are two different questions.
     
  25. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be desirous of one extreme or the other when the reality is most people shift their stance on abortion as pregnancy progresses. Statistics show most people are pro choice in the first trimester but as the pregnancy progresses they shift to pro life in overwhelming numbers so your assertion that pro life=against all abortion seems to be fallacious. It's a moving target and as the target moves the stand on abortion moves with it. I will agree though that many vehement pro choice people are extremely reluctant to admit this reality and would much rather stick to the extremists labeling of one side or the other.Pro choice or pro life and never the twain shall meet seems to be the mindset but the reality is far different and they do indeed meet somewhere between conception and birth.
     

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