Religion: The Great Delusion

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Starjet, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    I've seen a lot, but I've never seen a bird fly higher than a man.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  2. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    So am I.

    1. Everything has a cause; and by everything, we mean all that makes up the totality of the universe.

    2. The myopic atheist cames along and arrogantly asks "What caused the First Cause?!" The question itself is a fallacy, because it fails to assume the fine distinction between God and "everything."

    3. If God's the First Cause of everything, then "everything" is ultimately a totality of lesser causes. And lesser causes cannot give cause to something that is in and of itself a Cause.
     
  3. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    Created by the creative mind:
    [​IMG]
    And then there's the accident of nature:
    [​IMG]

    Hmmm. Think I'll side with Man's creative mind; seems much more hospitable and enjoyable for human life.
     
  4. Anikdote

    Anikdote Well-Known Member

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    From an epistemological stand point, sure maybe everything has a cause, but in the world outside of metaphysics, there a great deal of things that happen without cause, randomness and entropy absolutely exist and assigning causality to, bacteria for instance seems erroneous.

    If anyone is suffering from myopia, it's those who have the answers in mind before the question has been asked. You presuppose the existence of magical sky dude, and therefore all other arguments must fall into that construct. I'm arguing that your precondition falls apart at even the slightest bit of scrutiny and that even those who have faith in the sky people, can't agree on what they've done and how. At least the physicists admit to their limitations.
     
  5. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    Hmmm. And the dark ages were ruled by what? At its pinnacle, what was the cause of the fall of Islam? What created the Renaissance? Man stands at the height of glory not because of religion, but in spite of it.
     
  6. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Provide us with a solitary example.
     
  7. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense, as it man's attitude that defines success, and the
    Nature can destory that metropolis in a blink of an eye. I'll take the awesomeness of God over man any day....
     
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  8. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    The problem with the "first cause bit" is what caused it?
    Another first cause, or perhaps some mystic dimwit,
    though more likely than not it really was just this
    The never to be denied, the non-contradiction premise.

    So you see, it really matters naught,
    Be it a cause, a fit, or a magic kumquat
    It really is just as simple as this,
    You fools! You fools! Existence exists.
    And really, that's all there's to it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  9. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    And Man will rebuild it in a nano-second of eternity, better and stronger, until nature submits.
     
  10. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    What God has given Man:

    The sacrifice of the good for the sake of evil.

    [​IMG]

    No thanks, I choose this instead

    [​IMG]

    Howard Roark: “Thousands of years ago the first man discovered how to make fire. He was probably burnt at the stake he'd taught his brothers to light, but he left them a gift they had not conceived and he lifted darkness from the face of the Earth.”

    Man brought light to earth. God mucked it up, so to speak.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  11. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Nature submit? Laughable. The perimeters of man's creative cabalities were designed by Nature. Good luck with that though....
     
  12. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    Well, gravity doesn't stop jets or spaceships. Nature builds mountains, Man flies over them. Oceans roar, rage, and rise, but Man still navigates the globe.

    What is most obvious, and so hidden from the view of those minds dimly lit by religion, is that Man is Existence's...is Life's... is Nature's highest expression of itself. God is fool's gold. Man's is the universe's only true creator, the real gold nugget.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  13. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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  14. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's no more magical than the big bang theory and any of a number of different competing theories on the origins of life.
     
  15. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    But man will always be limited because of his inherent material nature. God wins in the end because He is the Indivisible, the Pure. Man cannot know the totality of all possible outcomes in existence, for everything in the universe is in constant motion. Ergo, man cannot harness infinity, but Infinity encompasses all things, the Destroyer of time and all things.
     
  16. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The last line is true. The dark ages and the fall of Islam and the renaissance were not global events.
    There's God and then there's religion. The religion may be false but the religion itself, any religion has no bearing on God. The two are totally different subjects or should be. There isn't any religion of any kind on the spirit side.
     
  17. Starjet

    Starjet Active Member Past Donor

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    I see. Hmmm...Because God can create Giraffes out of coke cans, this makes him more powerful than the mind that cured polio, performed heart transplants, landed on the moon, and looks at galaxies far, far away.
    And because Man is not omniscient, but God is...God can rewrite reality so that Man can really never gain true knowledge of true reality. Oh, you're a good Kantian.

    Ayn Rand on Man:
    "The power to rearrange the combinations of natural elements is the only creative power man possesses. It is an enormous and glorious power—and it is the only meaning of the concept “creative.” “Creation” does not (and metaphysically cannot) mean the power to bring something into existence out of nothing. “Creation” means the power to bring into existence an arrangement (or combination or integration) of natural elements that had not existed before. (This is true of any human product, scientific or esthetic: man’s imagination is nothing more than the ability to rearrange the things he has observed in reality.)"
    http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/creation.html

    Hmmm. I stick with Man, Existence, Objectivism, and Ayn Rand
     
  18. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Human is a herd animal which need social contacts to feel well, like a dog. Religion is a complex thing and a lot of things mixed, superstitions, philosophy, rituals, symbolics, social structures.
    I think that most of religion still exist because they are powerfull link creator. Church, mosques, synagogues, temples are powerfull social-contact creator.
     
  19. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm probably one of the only one, but I consider communism as a form of religion. I mean, they believe in a perfect ideal society which will exist in the future. But otherwise placing this ideal society after death in an outer realm like does muslims and christian, they think it will come on earth after an all-magical revolution which will solve every problems.
    What I mean beyond that is that even the communists which rejected strongly religion ended to have a simili religious cult in the end, with its prophet Marx and its bible, the communit manifesto.
     
  20. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    There cannot be power without Power.

    But God is the Reality. A material perspective cannot realize this as long as man relies solely on the physical to navigate through existence. Humans are limited by their material selves, and man can never truly know anything, because he can never be definite about what anything could mean at any given singularity in time.

    But God can, which is why the arrogance of man is always met with total and utter abasement, for of course, He is the Abaser.
     

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