Safe and effective, hey?

and you were corrected on your false dichotomy claim .. so you go look it up.

I didn't look at your study as you never posted it to me- and it was you who engaged in a false dichotomy - conflating Long Covid with Severe Adverse Reaction from the Jab SAR - conflating one risk of harm with another.

SAR from the Jab is 1 in 800. The Chances of healthy person ending up in the hospital /IC/Dead from Covid was ridiculously low .. for a healthy Child to die from Covid was a risk in the millions especially in the beginning when wasn't touching children..

Your claim that 1 in 800 is a very tiny chance is unqualified .. and false in context. The Swine flue vax was removed for SAR - 1 in 100,000 -- "Too Dangerous" .

 

You're getting a bit confused here. You not understanding something doesn't count as a correction.
Here is your false dichotomy, it's not one or the other:

Corrected:
Negligible risk of harm -mRNA Jab vs. Risk of harm from non elderly healthy person of dying from Covid vs. Contracting Long covid vs. Debilitating conditions exacerbated by the virus.

How bizarre, you literally quoted the damn thing in post #218!

I don't think you know what "conflate" means. I never made any dichotomy and you appear to be bloviating.

Answered and ignored. The use of the word "severe" when referencing vaccine safety is based on a clear baseline. None of the SARs are life threatening and nearly every one of them is a swift recovery.

All irrelevant. The risk of long-covid is not quite as selective as the virus.

If you read it properly, you would see that I said SERIOUS, as opposed to the word used to describe the worst of adverse reactions - SEVERE. Properly serious reactions like the ones caused by covid-19! From the vaccine, these are extremely rare.

There are so many differences. Not least the standard of adverse reactions you are referring to. This is your goto factoid isn't it! Yet you have made no attempt to understand all the different factors involved.

The Long Shadow of the 1976 Swine Flu Vaccine 'Fiasco' | Smart News| Smithsonian Magazine
"The real victims of this pandemic were likely the 450-odd people who came down with Guillain-Barre syndrome, a rare neurological disorder, after getting the 1976 flu shot. On its website, the CDC notes that people who got the vaccination did have an increased risk of “approximately one additional case of GBS for every 100,000 people who got the swine flu vaccine.”

There's the factoid. How come you missed the bolded bit? Whilst there are now good treatments for this, in 1976 this really WAS a severe reaction.

[Treatment of Guillain-Barré Syndrome] - PubMed (nih.gov)
"The treatment of Guillain-Barre syndromé (GBS) was mainly symptomatic until the 1950s, followed by corticosteroid treatment in the 1950s through 1960s. Plasma exchange (PE) was then performed during 1970s through the 1980s, after which intravenous immunoglobulin (IVIg) was performed in 1990s through the 2000s. The effectiveness of IVIg and PE has been established by randomized controlled trial(RCT). Recently, new treatments using biological products have been explored. In this paper, we summarize the development of the treatment of GBS."

Guillain Barré syndrome - PMC (nih.gov) 2001
"Guillain Barré syndrome remains one of the most fascinating yet challenging conditions despite considerable advances in its understanding and treatment over the past 10 years."

And from that paper in 2001, we get:
"Treatment with both intravenous immunoglobulin and plasma exchange reduces the time taken for recovery to occur, although mortality remains around 8%, with about 20% of patients remaining disabled."

So in 2001 with "considerable advances it's a 8% death-rate and 20% permanently disabled. THAT was why they pulled the damn thing in 1976!

 

Not sure what your problem is with the use of the word "Severe" .. I didn't come up with the term Severe adverse Reaction (SAR)
nor did I invent the definition.

1 in 100,000 got Guillian Barre .. interesting as this is one of the main SAR's from the mRNA vax .. Myocharditis being the other one .. cept it is not 1 in 100,000 . but 1 in 800. which is way way higher.. more than 100 times higher. .

 

Wow, did you really just quote my post and ignore the whole damn thing!?

Irrelevant. It's the word used to describe a bad reaction that falls farthest from their baseline. A non-lethal reaction.

No it is not! It is extremely rare. Modern techniques and medicines make it far more treatable.

This is what the word conflate means and what you are doing with those cases! The myocarditis instances are almost exclusively mild and quickly resolved.

Did you finally understand your failure on the dichotomy, yes or no?
You quoted my study, yes or no?
None of the listed SARs are life threatening, did you understand that, yes or no?
Long-covid is far less selective than the virus, yes or no?
GBS was far serious in 1976, yes or no?
Have you discovered what conflate now means, yes or no?
Do you understand the serious reactions caused by the virus itself, yes or no?

Answer posts properly!

 

~ Now we learn that most of those hospitalized actually died from being put on a ventilator. It appears the treatment — and lack of basic prevention — caused most "Covid" deaths . "'

 

Fiction. It really isn't great to continually make up things. Nice summary from AI:

1. Study Context: The study being referenced examined outcomes of mechanically ventilated patients with pneumonia, not only from COVID-19 but also from other causes. The goal was to evaluate factors contributing to good or bad outcomes during their ICU stay. One significant finding was that a secondary pneumonia associated with mechanical ventilation could contribute to a patient’s death when it doesn’t respond to treatment. This secondary pneumonia, known as ventilator-associated pneumonia, occurs while the patient is already on the ventilator for pneumonia. It’s important to note that this issue is not specific to COVID-19 but applies more broadly1.
   
2. Misrepresentation: The headline claiming that ventilators killed nearly all COVID patients is mischaracterizing the situation. While ventilator-associated complications can indeed contribute to deaths, patients are typically placed on ventilators when they would otherwise die. In other words, the ventilator intervention is often a life-saving measure for those in respiratory failure2.
   
3. Clinical Decision-Making: Ventilators are not used lightly; they are crucial for patients who cannot breathe adequately on their own. Comparing this to a severe car crash, where a patient might die despite surgical attempts, it’s the underlying condition (such as COVID-19) that remains the primary cause of death1.
   
4. Death Rate: A study from January 2021 estimated that the death rate among people worldwide who needed mechanical ventilation due to severe COVID-19 symptoms could be anywhere from 43% to 64%3.
   

In summary, ventilators play a critical role in saving lives, and attributing nearly all COVID-19 deaths to ventilators is inaccurate. The disease itself remains the primary cause of mortality.

 

I would not go as far as "most" .. but the ventilator .. like Chemo .. has a significant chance of killing the ventilatee .. keeping in mind that someone is in big trouble to begin with .. like the stage 3 cancer patient its moving quick and if not stopped you are going to go.

Where James does hit nail on the head .. is the point on prevention. .. and the lack there-of .. which indeed was responsible for many deaths .. particularly in the US .. which for some strange reason had a much higher death rate than Canada - EU - other first world nations. Doctors lost their minds .. and were not treating patients - with covid induced pneumonia - like you would normally treat for pneumonia .. .. flat out lost their minds .. forgot basic protocol .. for treating Pneumonia .. which is ?? come on children .. surely you should know how to treat the thing that kills 9 out of 10 who die from the Flue .. Covid - "Omnicron" included. -- die from pneumonia .. and at the end of days this is how we all die .. if not hit by a meteor .. when the life long bettle between the good bacteria and the bad bacteria is finally lost .. your lungs fill up with slime/fluid .. and the the dirt nap begins.

You don't know how to treat for how you are going to die friends ? is that what you are telling me ? .. don't feel bad .. cause apparently the Doctors forgot.

How about Vitimin C .. just a shot in the dark .. thats artillery for the good bugs right ? "Check" throw Vitimin D in there for extra credit .. and any other homeopathic elixer you can conjur .. Tea w honey lemon ceyanne pepper one of my favorites .. and old Thai recipie each has a specific impact on your troops .. or negative impact on the bad bugs. honey a biocide.. lemon direct citric injection and pH change .. highly recommended to squeeze directly down throut .. ceyanne an interesting ingredient from Thailand recipie .. turns out to be a strong biocide.

Now .. should the pneumonia progress .. and arming the good guys not working .. we have to drop nuclear bomb .. use antibiotic.. but .. when you have to .. you have to.

And Doctors just forgot .. became anti- any kind of treatment other than the Jab . Some treatment .. which seems perfectly logical .. got demonized as "Horse Parasite Pills" or some such nonsense. Surely you mates have heard of "Ivermectin" .. what's that for .. why would anyone take an anti-parasitic, anti inflammation pill for the parasitic infection known as Pneumonia ? .. where swelling is a problem.

Why the heck would they do that friends ? .. saved this for the end because Ivermectin was not standard medicine.. The others treatments the Doctors rejected were .. ??? why they stopped treating pneumonia as pneumonia .. I fail to hazard a guess .. but there was stupid stupid stuff going on .. all over this joke of a "Pandemic" Where the average healthy person had a lower risk of harm from a normal influenza season.

 

By the time a ventilator is required, the patient is in serious trouble already!

You really should consider using better grammar and wording to state your point. You seem to be suggesting that doctors "didn't" / "forgot to" treat covid-19 induced pneumonia and I seem to have missed where you actually provided evidence for this!

People are free to use whatever cold-remedies they wish. The problem is by the time they get to hospital and seriously ill, early preventative remedies are far less effective.

You seem to be suggesting that doctors didn't bother with any treatment because of reasons (as always not given or proven).

That is complete horseshit.

You mean a drug primarily created for veterinary use?

So let me understand you. You almost certainly have complained (and probably still continue to do so) about the "experimental" nature of the vaccines, huffing and puffing and saying "how dreadful", "experimenting on people", yada yada yada. Yet you appear to be extolling the virtues of a drug that had not one iota of field testing performed, prior to use by fringe doctors, involves a dose regarded as toxic to have any real effect and overall is regarded as problematical.
Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent COVID-19 | FDA

An absolutely ludicrous statement! Something in the region of 7 million deaths is orders of magnitude worse than a damn "normal influenza season"!

 

You say "The ventilator is required when someone is in serious trouble" .. as if this is not a given from previous.. so why are you repeating this like it is new information and of its own volition has some bearing on the conversation ? -- then you introduce the Grammar Nazi .. as if running around chasing grammar errors in an internet debate is an argument for something ?

It is not "Complete Horseshit" that Doctors were neglecting normal treatment procedures for pneumonia .. what is "Complete Horseshit" is you pretending normal treatment for pneumonia included Ivermectin in a lame attempt at strawman fallacy.

 

How come it's being discussed again? Why, because YOU decided to comment on it once again.

It's completely off topic to the efficacy of vaccines!

Actually it is in this case because your nonsensical grammar fails to make any proper sense. Normal English works far better.

Yes, yes it is.

Nope, no it isn't. I don't think you read my post properly or understand what a strawman is. YOU claimed that doctors didn't follow proper treatment regimes, indicate clearly where my strawman is on this matter.

You can also answer the rest of my post huh?

 

Your whole post is off topic .. nor addresses anything you said .. unable to answer anything in my post with aught but strawman fallacy and nonsense.

"You can't answer the reset of post and don't know what strawman fallacy is you say

Above is what was said to you .. the part about Ivermectin addressing the rest of your post .. hence another strawman fallacy on your part so clearly you who does not know what one is and not I . .. in addition to you pretending I included Ivermectin in the normal treatment - which I did not ... a strawman fallacy

 

Thanks for clarifying your nonsensical position. You don't know what a strawman is, you don't actually answer any posts properly, you continue with this meaningless off-topic yawn and I don't anticipate any sudden realization of this, on your part. Meanwhile, comedy evasion on the following!

1. So let me understand you. You almost certainly have complained (and probably still continue to do so) about the "experimental" nature of the vaccines, huffing and puffing and saying "how dreadful", "experimenting on people", yada yada yada. Yet you appear to be extolling the virtues of a drug that had not one iota of field testing performed, prior to use by fringe doctors, involves a dose regarded as toxic to have any real effect and overall is regarded as problematical. Any answer here?
2. An absolutely ludicrous statement! Something in the region of 7 million deaths is orders of magnitude worse than a damn "normal influenza season"! Any answer here?
3. YOU claimed that doctors didn't follow proper treatment regimes, indicate clearly where my strawman is on this matter. Any answer here?
4. You claimed I didn't supply you with the study link - How bizarre, you literally quoted the damn thing in post #218! Any answer here?
5. Did you finally understand your failure on the dichotomy, yes or no? Any answer here?
6. None of the listed SARs are life threatening, did you understand that, yes or no? Any answer here?
7. Long-covid is far less selective than the virus, yes or no? Any answer here?
8. GBS was far serious in 1976, yes or no? Any answer here?
9. Have you discovered what conflate now means, yes or no? Any answer here?
10. Do you understand the serious reactions caused by the virus itself, yes or no? Any answer here?

Answer posts properly!

 

Look friend .. you do not understand what an SAR is - Serious Adverse Reaction.

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccine-safety/utd.html

Your claim that an SAR is not life threatening is completely false as per the above definition. The word "Serious" .. when referring to adverse reactions from the Vaccine.

Your claim that the SAR's being discussed are not life threatening .. is completely false.. as per the above definition .. both myocharditis and Guillian Barre syndrome are "Life Threatening"

What is not "Life Threatening" so much .. is "long Covid" which is one of the reasons for the use of SAR as a harm metric rather than long Covid.

So once again .. 1-800 chance of SAR .. sometimes resulting in death and/or serious long term damage is on one side of the Scale vs no apparent significant benefit on the other side of the scale for the average healthy person.

 

My claim is that the vast majority of these reported SARs are listed as such because of 1/ precautionary 2/ uncorrelated for further investigation. Any reference I am making to SARs is CLEARLY in relation to the ones recorded, that YOU are attempting to conflate!
What is a Serious Adverse Event? | FDA
I know how to read, the SARs being quoted are reported because they involved emergency room admission and treatment. Where the big problem is, is where conspiracy theorists take these events and make them into "life threatening" issues!

Myocarditis and Pericarditis After mRNA COVID-19 Vaccination | CDC
Myocarditis and pericarditis after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart muscle, and pericarditis is inflammation of the outer lining of the heart. In both cases, the body’s immune system causes inflammation in response to an infection or some other trigger.

Symptoms of myocarditis and pericarditis:

• Chest pain
• Shortness of breath
• Feelings of having a fast beating, fluttering, or pounding heart

Most patients with myocarditis or pericarditis after COVID-19 vaccination responded well to medicine and rest and felt better quickly.

And once again the same pathetic cherry picked argument. Virtually EVERY single cause of myocarditis was mild and treated quickly! It becomes life threatening if left untreated or any treatment is ineffective! Cases of guillain-barré syndrome are miniscule and all non-correlated to the vaccine.

Incredible. It's been explained to you so painfully simply, yet here you are STILL not getting it! It is a very real alternative that your false dichotomy did not include.

An absurd statement. One is a known side effect to the virus, the others in terms of this discussion are supposedly vaccine related!

You can once again make the same failed false dichotomy but it doesn't suddenly correct it!
Negligible risk of harm -mRNA Jab vs. Risk of harm from non elderly healthy person of dying from Covid vs. Contracting Long covid vs. Debilitating conditions exacerbated by the virus.