Smugglers Cut Doors Into Trump's Wall

I have sympathy for European nation-states who oppose immigration, principally because their historical identity is based on notions of nationality which is tied to a shared history, culture and idea of nationhood. I have less sympathy for Americans who oppose immigration, simply because if there was ever a justification for America, it wasn't that any particular group had a greater claim to it than any other. Rather, that it was supposed to be a "nation of immigrants" taking part in an experiment in self-government founded on the ideals behind its declaration of independence and the ethos arising from its constitutional experience -- an experience which included, in its latest chapters, defeating the last vestiges from America's dark experience with racism, discrimination and slavery.

Of course, it is also true that no nation can either survive or thrive if it has no control over its own borders. Being open to immigration is not the same as allowing people to cross over to the US illegally. My own view is that anyone who makes it to the US, whether legally or even illegally, has already taken the steps to be afforded appropriate legal protection, absent which the resulting legal and political climate will be one that will further foster discrimination and racism. But if there is truly a 'wall' or any other mechanism that can prevent illegal immigration to the US, that is not problematic to me at all. That aspect of Trump's anti-immigrant discourse is the one that I find the least troubling, with the only real issues about the wall mainly issues of whether it will work to accomplish its stated objectives?

I am no expert on the issue, but if a simple wall won't do the trick, I imagine there must be other methods which can go along with and augment the wall to prevent illegal immigration into the US. It might be costly, but the costs will probably not be greater than allowing the border to be open to illegal immigration. The problem I do have with the discourse in America about the wall, however, is that it seems to be one that goes beyond just preventing illegal immigration and has been mixed up with other aspects of Trump's rhetoric which feed and fuel racism, discrimination and a vision of America at odds with its best principles.

 

The Hungarians have a wall to keep out illegal refugees. The Spaniards have a wall in Morocco to keep out illegal aliens. The Israelis have a wall which all but eliminated terrorist attacks from the territories.

The nbc story about cutting through the southern border wall specifically stated that sensors had not been set up in those sections yet. Illegal crossing have dropped a lot since the wall started going up.

So much for walls not working.

 

And it's a valid one. Cultures must often change for thee good of the people.

Given that I've lived more than two decades in Central America I'm quite familiar with the laws, their history and their effect on people.

They certainly do accept it as they've grown up in it and think that's just the way the world works. However because of the mass media, especially the Internet, they're discovering it doesn't have to always be that way.

In fact the corruption in government goes back hundreds of years, long before there was a 'drug culture' and in areas where there are few or no drugs whatsoever. I live in such an area.

Yes, drugs are bad. I know.

Perhaps you can let your Congressman know about this problem.

I live among 'brown people'. I'm in the minority every day. What cliched, uninspired and tired opinions you have.

 

I used to do a fair amount of business with customers from Mexico. 40+ years ago, they described their country as a place where 10 percent of the population paid another 10 percent of the population to keep the other 80 percent away from them.

What a country.

 

Amazing! You've done a cost analysis estimated to be in the 'billions' just by looking at a hole in wall. Trillions would sound even more impressive and mean just about the same.

 

That idea is moving northward now.

 

And?

 

America was mostly a nation of immigrants and these immigrants got together and created a nation of laws with a Constitution and Bill of Rights. Among those laws was the protection of the nations borders. You refer to America's 'dark history' but there are still areas of the word with slavery, sexist laws, and genocide against people of another religion. Perhaps they deserve a closer look.

Agreed. Israel built a great wall. https://www.google.com/search?q=israeli+wall&rlz=1C1GCEA_enCA776CA776&sxsrf=ACYBGNRK-5H5dbqvqAMz6FzpjILAIuaiGA:1572895830344&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=vJW1wiJjVA1-OM%3A%2CH2rVBuKF_5DWeM%2C%2Fm%2F02059_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSyPC6BkPlHxaR_PfwLcvle963Oow&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiq3vHJpdHlAhWnwVkKHf-xDVUQ_B0wEnoECAcQAw#imgrc=vJW1wiJjVA1-OM:

 

There are plenty of other threads which you can use to peddle the propaganda you prefer about this imaginary 'nation' that is a figment of enough propaganda as it is. Lets focus in this thread about the issue that was being discussed.

 

In fact I quoted your own post! Don't you recognize your own words?

 

Every country has something in its past that fanatics can refer to as "Dark History". Russia had communism. England and France had empires which dominated local populations and reduced them to slaves, or second-class citizens. King Leopold of Belgium personally owned the Congo and ran it like a slave plantation. The Spanish ruled South America and Mexico the same way. The Dutch ruled Indonesia with a heavy hand.

Our "dark history" is a much lighter shade.

 

What you say is true, and everyone knows it. But that doesn't prevent the anti Americans repeating their same tired nonsense suggesting that America's 'dark history' is still alive today.

 

You mean my post about America (which I quote again below), not the imaginary country you want to peddle propaganda about? Your comment all the more surprising since the quote you refer to had mentioned the opposite of what you imply: that America's constitutional experience had actually defeated the last vestiges of its dark history of slavery, discrimination and racism! (Of course, not to go overboard, in particular in light of more recent events, the last vestiges I am referring to is in America's legal system, not in its political or popular culture).

 

You bet. A national ID card tied to a government database (similar to the Nexus Pass) that will identify whether or not the holder is entitled to work here. Potential employers can read the card with a cell phone. Get caught employing illegal? A huge fine, even for domestics. Get hiring a bunch of illegals? Jail terms.

Trump won't bring in an effective e-verify program because he doesn't really want to stop illegal immigration.

 

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The first article had nothing to do with Podesta. What about the point it was making?

 

Go jump the wall at the White House or any U.S. military installation. If you don't abide by the verbal instructions then justifiable homocide is more than acceptable.

 

That makes no sense. You call people providing proof of something which the US has done 'totalitarianism from people trying to push the agenda that America is bad'

That is just meaningless words.

you sound a bit like you believe she is your mother and the mother of the world. Sadly you presumably do not know much of US history.

You have been provided with plenty of proof that the main problem with Central America has been and continues to be US interference.

In every case where the US has supported opponents of those working for change or those elected by the people, it is the US side that massively and disgustingly kills. I think it was in Guatemala that I saw pictures of civilians beheaded, civilians with their inners cut out, even children. These actions were done against people voted in by their own perhaps they chose Marxism or simply democratic reformists who did not work the way the US wanted. What in hell makes you believe that the US has the right to support and arm genocide if the people want a different political system to the US.

https://consortiumnews.com/2019/01/...ook-back-at-how-washington-promoted-genocide/

or listen to Allan Nairns talking on Democracy Now also about Guatemala - this country has brought those responsible for the genocide to court. He argues the US should be there to.

https://www.democracynow.org/2015/9/4/allan_nairn_us_backers_of_guatemalan

That is just one country. The same inhumanity supported by the US has been going on and on in other Latin American countries destroying their right of life, their right to earn sufficient to feed their families, their right to democracy. One will do for today. I still haven't worked out why Israel is so involved in the inhumanity continuously going on at the US bequest in Central America.

 

Tell Trump. It's time he went after employers. No work, no reason to stay.

Focus on what matters--cut off work.

Cities are refusing to enforce federal law, not hiding illegals.

No excuses--tell the Orange Oaf he has to go after employers.

 

no i just don't twist American history to make America the bad guy every time..

 

cut off living places

refusing to enforce federal law in this instance is the same thing as hiding illegals
suppose there was a federal ban on guns and the state of Montana said hell no and didn't enforce federal law would they be hiding gun owners? YUP!

He's your president you tell him.

 

You ignore reality which does not fit with your fantasy and like a little child then go nah nah nah nah nah..

 

They are not citizens of this country. The government’s main task is to place the welfare of US citizens above the welfare of non US citizens. Illegal low skilled and poorly educated regressively harm low income US minority citizens.

 

Please stop the insane war on drugs. Give the stuff to addicts.

 

i don't ignore reality but i know what else i can ignore..