So, Trump just basically suggested a police state...

Your odd and inaccurate statement is a reflection of how crazy Trump is. It seems you've been listening to Trump again.
The people who want us dead are not representatives of an entire religion which needs to be targeted (no more than targeting all Christians would help stop KKK murders).
The people who want us dead are violent terrorists. If we target an entire religion, our stupid actions simply helps the Terrorists recruit more easily. Why on earth do you think government officials don't connect the terrorists to a specific religion?
Also, if you really don't think the NSA, CIA and FBI have identified what groups the terrorists belong to, their thought processes and motivations... then you are as deluded as Trump.

 

Yes the liberals have been doing that for some time now.

 

I agree..........

 

The trend is universal, Republicans and Democrats alike are doing it. Only idiots and people with issues make this a "liberal" affair.

 

I concur. I always like to remind people that in the creation story God created mankind LAST. In the story in Genesis, the creation of mankind was almost like an afterthought; and it wasn't long before God regretted creating mankind and flooded the planet killing everyone except one family. At least that is the way the story reads. I am sure we are very, very close to another 'flood' stage, except I think the earth will be destroyed with fire, (nuclear bombs) or possibly a pandemic. Nice thoughts for early in the morning.

 

I must be a genius too as I have though this way for awhile...LOL The point is that it's pretty clear that we have taken much and are incapable of giving anything back to a planet that does not need us in the first place. I don't buy into the religious mumbo jumbo, but it does have a foreboding element of philosophical truth to it.

 

Yep.

Not a progressive, (I tend to side with them more often then not) But it is something I hope not to have happen again. (MrNicks quote is what hope not to have happen)
That being typed...I can conclude that the vast majority of American nationalist want government to close borders, an use all funds for military to prevent outside country's from messing with what some Conservatives perceive, as F$%king with making America great again....like back in 1950's-60's. I will never get along with this ideal. The first 2 examples he presented are a race...that last "communist" was an ideal..bad one by the way, but how can you lock up, spy, examine, snitch, on a person of religion..makes no since to me...but that's just me. Let alone Bomb making material, WTF is that? I'm an Electrician an I scrap wire...should i be locked up for my pick-up caring bucket loads of scrap?

Ps: I'm late to the party of these politics, so i will comb though these forums an see what I can gather.

[video=youtube;MtkK3eijBso]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtkK3eijBso[/video]

 

I am not suggesting we create a police state to deal with radicalized Muslims; but not 'policing' them a little more intensely will get us 9-11, San Bernadino, and Orlando. Not one person alerted authorities about the possibility the whack-job shooter in Orlando was 'losing it'. No one reported the strange actions of the 9-11 terrorists, or the San Bernadino terrorists. No one reports radical Imams, If their own community refuses to participate in stopping terrorist attacks, then what are we supposed to do--give all Muslims a kumbaya hug and kudos to persuade them to participate in stopping terrorist attacks? Didn't they suggest we do that last year after San Bernadino; and look what we got. After every attack there is almost a bigger pity party for Muslims, than their victims. The whole thing is reminiscent of shootings in the hood in which no one saw, or heard anything. If members of the community would start turning in and testifying against the shooters, the numbers of shootings would decrease.

Not marginalizing Muslims has not worked. Maybe marginalizing them will. If they get tired enough of the added scrutiny, maybe they will start to see, hear and say something about their fellow Muslims who are acting strange.

By the way, 10,000 people have died in terrorist attacks since the beginning of 2016, and 12,000 have been injured. Islam extremism is increasing not diminishing.

 

How much 'love' do you think we need to shower on them before we start to see results regarding the Muslim community speaking up when they see or hear something suspicious?

 

The fact that you capitalized "bomb" is interesting. In another post, the word "terrorist" was capitalized. In English, we only capitalize proper people, places and things. "Bomb" and terrorist are not proper people or things.

 

Do you? Because that wouldn't apply according to Mr. Trump suggests.

 

It isn't about one man. It is about the fact that there have been 1045 terrorist attacks around the world since the beginning of 2016--most, if not all--committed by Muslims. Ten thousand people have died, and twelve thousand wounded. In America, there have been 132 murders in the name of Islam since 9-11. Many of these have been mass murders where three or more people were killed. Many of these were attacks on Muslim women who didn't strictly adhere to Sharia Law. It isn't about one "lone wolf". It is about many of them.

 

I do actually. She knew what he was planning, had tried to talk him out of it, but went with him to obtain ammunition and didn't TELL ANYONE. http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/what-is-aiding-abetting-and-accessory-to-crime.htm
Even if you didn't intend the crime, if you aid in its prep you can be charged. She helped him get ammo, knew what he was on about and didn't tell the store clerk.

Quote him then because the OP article is incredibly screwed.

 

Trump was talking about San Bernadino, not this Orlando incident.

 

“We need to make sure every single person involved in this plan, including anyone who knew something, but didn’t tell us, is brought to justice,” Trump said in New Hampshire. “These people need to have consequences, big consequences.”

^^ That's aiding and abetting or accessory he's talking about. Notice the caveats of INVOLVED etc. His statement says that anyone who helped with the plan should be punished. That's real standard man.
The statement applies even more fully to this most recent case where the wife knew, tried to talk him out of it, but went with him to secure ammunition and case the joint.

 

Well, I'm not talking to the police about anything for that reason, as they can construe anything said to be probable cause. I'm pretty pro-police, but that's only if they are kept to Constitutional limits. The Bill of Rights is for our protection against an over-reaching government. Any encroachment on that endangers our liberty.

 

Our leadership is in bed with those in Saudi that are funding radical Islamic Mosques in this country. Apparently you didn't spot in another thread the post announcing that Saudi is funding 20% of Hillary's campaign.

Where does a candidate get off accepting foreign funds to be elected in this country? That should be illegal. Of course it means that foreign religion/s and interests will at times be favored over those of US citizens.

The point is that our government is not just allowing "peaceful" Muslims in. Above that, though, is that violent jihad is easily justifiable under Islam no matter how many centuries an Islamic sect has, up until now, been peaceful. It is a dynamic many of us do not want to see take permanent hold here. We have seen the spitefulness of Palestinian terrorist methods become endemic in Israel and we just don't want it for our country. No group of people is worth letting in here if that is to be the result. It's a value judgement--we just don't want that kind of a society.

Islam is like an apple that rots from its core. The exterior can look very beautiful, but inside the vindictiveness and spite of Mohammed's warlike teachings from Medina continue the rot, which is ready to infest any naive follower not influenced by more modern teachings. There are teachers in Islam that seek out such followers and use them to their political ends, and the rest of Islam benefits from this over historical time whether or not they will admit it. The goal of Muslims is to live in countries controlled by Islam.

 

Except you can't possibly know how many potential terrorist attacks have been thwarted by tips from the Muslim community or how many convictions have been in part aided by muslems because that process is not normally made public and the FBI is going to protect its sources.

Here's a few I did discover.

The Lackawanna 6 were discovered when " In June 2001, an anonymous two-page handwritten letter was received from an individual ostensibly living in Lackawanna who knew the immigrant Yemeni population intimately. It warned, "I am very concern. I am an Arab-American... and I cannot give you my name because I fear for my life. Two terrorist [sic] came to Lackawanna... for recruiting the Yemenite youth... the terrorist group... left to Afghanistan to meet... bin Laden and stay in his camp for training", and gave the names of twelve local youths"


Shahawar Matin Siraj and James Elshafay, two lone terrorists, were convicted of plotting to bomb Herald square thanks to the undercover work of an informant US citizen Osama Eldawoody, a Muslim of Egyptian descent with a nuclear engineering degree who volunteered to work as a paid New York City Police Department informant to work undercover in Mosques in the New York area

Mohammad Zaki Amawi, Marwan Othman El-Hindi, and Wassim Mazloum. were arrested and charged with conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists in Iraq and engage in violent jihad in their home town U.S. attorney's general office credited the local Muslim and Arab-American community for passing along the information that lead to the arrest of the three terror suspects

Here is one link to substantiate http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/fbi-muslim-outreach-terrorism-213765

...In fact, they say, U.S. Muslim communities already are highly wired by U.S. law enforcement and intelligence. And contrary to being “radicalized,” they have proven astonishingly cooperative on the whole. Numerous sources in U.S. law enforcement and national security interviewed for this story drew a picture of a largely sub-rosa but widespread effort in American counterterrorism: The deep embedding of federal counter-terrorism and intelligence-gathering efforts in Muslim communities like Dearborn (“The FBI has been great,” says Haddad), using an approach less driven by “patrolling” and surveillance than by using sophisticated if sometimes intrusive outreach and informant programs. The result, U.S. officials say, is that Muslim neighborhoods here are cooperating against Islamist terrorists to a degree that can’t be found among their counterparts in Europe.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/fbi-muslim-outreach-terrorism-213765#ixzz4BfmUCG00
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People say the "Trump=Hitler analogy" is threadworn or false....but look what he's doing-

1. Populist economic message...at odds with both conservative and liberal economics.

2. Projecting an image of a country "reborn to strength, power, 'greatness'."

3. Projecting an image of himself as powerful and never defeated.

4. Isolating a religious minority as a target for oppression and blame by citing random examples or even false examples of deranged individuals in that religion.

5. Racial targetting.

6. Calls for curtailment of basic civil rights to the targetted groups.

7. Calls for imperialistic war...."seizing their resources for our own"...but with a "quick victory unlike the last war."

8. Discussion of "controlling" the Press

9. Using his autobiographical book as a basis for his ideology and philosophy.




Okay....am I talking about Trump...or Der Furhrer? If you forget #9, I'm sure Amazon has copies of "Mein Kampf"....or "The Art of the Deal" available.

 

Guess who is calling the FBI to start investigating persons of interest so that they become persons of interest?
See Post # 143. The problem is the attacks get a lot of attention. Do you think the anonymous informants of the thwarted crimes or suspicious activity or persons are going to get the same? If they are using an anonymous line, and are reporting activity in the local mosque or discussed in Arabic, its likely to be a member of the local community. If they become reliable informants on a regular basis rather than just concerned citizens, law enforcement has an even greater interest in hiding their identity or what they shared.

What on earth makes you think you would know where the tips come from for events that do not happen, or the early planning that got called off, because law enforcement learned something from a Muslim American and then started snooping?

 

Point taken. But is that reality? Are there Muslims reporting suspicious activity and thereby thwarting attacks? It would be nice to know that there are informants out there, but they were sure absent during the last two attacks--unless the FBI dropped the ball; or we simply do not have the resources to check all these 'secret reports' pouring in from concerned Muslims.

 

Point taken. If I was a member of a community that wanted to fit into the society that I came to, and there were people in my community wreaking havoc around the country by conducting terrorist attacks, I would do everything I could to prevent attacks as the backlash is directed towards my community. That's just me. If my son was committing terrorist attacks I would turn him in, and if he succeeded in committing terrorist attacks I would kill him myself. The mothers and other family members of the last three terrorists that died, did not feel the same way.

 

I have a friend who lived in El Salvador during their darkest days. False reporting of neighbours and other acquaintances for revenge was a problem and left everyone walking on egg shells. "Be careful" became a threat that meant you might be picked up by the police or army because of an anonymous tip from someone who disliked you.

Trump would approve of El Salvador's fascist tendencies in those days.

 

The loved ones of a someone who is in the process of 'radicalizng' are probably like the parents of any other destructive or self-destructive person. Some have no clue because it is either well hidden or there is discord or distance between them, some are in denial about how are gone their loved one is, and some are justifiers.


I imagine the dynamic is a lot like watching your kid immersing themselves into gangs or drug. The more you try to persuade them, or stop them, the less they allow you to know about what they are thinking or who their associates are, and no one wants to believe their son could actually commit horrendous crimes.

 

The shooter was born in the US of 'peaceful' immigrants. So are you going to start targeting US citizens because of their religion?

If you like a Muslim Jihad, you'll love a Christian Holy War. Seems the pot is calling the kettle black again.