Taiwan in Trouble!

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by AARguy, Dec 3, 2021.

  1. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    6,581
    Likes Received:
    1,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In case of war with Iran, at first the carnage will be mutual. Iran holds the upper-hand in theater. The US, on the other hand, enjoys and will enjoy overwhelming strategic dominance. That is about as much as you can be sure about. The rest will depend on things that are speculative, although speculation that the side with strategic dominance will come out the winner isn't without solid foundation.

    As for Israel, what you imagine is simply a joke that isn't even funny.

    lol ... your "reality" is the world presented to you by FOX news and CNN. Even then, to make that "reality" more to your liking, you interject your wild fantasies into the mix.

    Please tell me, in the meantime, the credentials you are looking from experts that could help you wake up to reality. The experts I referred to have credentials beyond reproach.
    https://apnews.com/article/middle-e...intelligence-cfba78c69ae656697684ab92c4cac5b9
    Ex-intel chief confirms Israel’s role in Soleimani killing
    December 21, 2021
     
  2. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    7,695
    Likes Received:
    2,310
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What is this CHAMP thing? Google brought up prized fighters.
     
  3. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    6,658
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    CHAMP (Counter-electronics, High-powered, Advanced Missile Program) is built by Boeing. Here's a link that is ten years old (now that it is fielded, it apparently enjoys a classified nature, although you can still find some references) https://defensereview.com/boeing-ch...ssile-destroys-electronic-targets-not-people/. It is an EMP generator that started mounted in a missile but has been miniaturized enough to fit into a pod that can be carried by aircraft, even UxV's ("drones"). It can generate a field that can render enemy electronics inoperable.
     
    Dayton3 and Poohbear like this.
  4. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    6,581
    Likes Received:
    1,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    https://www.c4isrnet.com/electronic...nse-of-champ-the-silver-bullet-miracle-missil
    Making sense of CHAMP, the silver bullet miracle missile that isn’t
    e-that-isnt/

    The Scorpios system recently deployed by Israel to augment their Iron Dome is from similar concepts. These EMP systems also have offensive capabilities in theory to be deployed on military vessels and aircraft. Trump claimed similar systems had shot down to 2 Iranian drones but he couldn't prove it while Iran refuted it through detailed video evidence.

    In the context of Iran/Israel and the implications of systems such as Scorpios, this video might be helpful when it comes to the propaganda mixed in with the science.
     
  5. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    6,658
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I never heard of the Israeli Scorpios system, but I worked, peripherally on the US CHAMP system. I assume they are very different. The artwork you posted looks more like a laser than CHAMP. CHAMP generates a field "fan" about 40 degrees wide, not a point targeted "beam" as depicted in your post.
    By the way, the link you posted doesn't work.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2022
    Dayton3 likes this.
  6. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    6,581
    Likes Received:
    1,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The link was broken when I copy/pasted the title. Try this.
    https://www.c4isrnet.com/electronic...-the-silver-bullet-miracle-missile-that-isnt/
    Making sense of CHAMP, the silver bullet miracle missile that isn’t

    As for Scorpious, pro Israeli tabloids such as the one below will give you further propaganda intro:
    https://nypost.com/2021/11/11/israel-has-new-scorpius-electromagnetic-defense-system/
    ‘Revolution in warfare’: Israel has new ‘invisible’ defense system
    By
    Haley Brown
    November 11, 2021
     
  7. AARguy

    AARguy Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2021
    Messages:
    14,265
    Likes Received:
    6,658
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The NY Post article on Scorpius describes a system which sounds good. It can be focused, which allows targeting of enemy systems in a heavily trafficked air combat environment. That makes good sense. I looks like the Israelis have taken the technology and tailored it to their own needs... always a good thing. The Article calls the system "invisible" because it is. It consists of magnetic lines of force, not a projectile. That indeed makes it invisible. Good stuff. Since there is no projectile it cannot be detected by radar, which is probably moot since the magnetic energy is travelling at the speed of light and couldn't be stopped even if there was a projectile to see coming in. That's a good article about a system that is in place and ready.

    The other article actually seems phony.It looks like a usually relaible source but the author seems grossly unfamiliar both about things military and ... Physics.

    The article is supposed to be about CHAMP, an EMP weapon, but begins with a picture purporting to be the firing of ATACMS to exercise countering North Korean ICBM's. ATACMS is artillery and has nothing at all to do with Air Defense of any sort. ATACMS carries bomblets that are designed to attack ground targets, not anything in the air. And it goes on to get worse...

    The complex firing circuits of a nuclear weapon are very susceptible to EMP. They are printed circuits. The author seems not to know this. And the author goes on to talk about protection from EMP, not understanding that the only known protection, a Farraday Cage, does not work on aircraft, Aircraft are "grounded" through the Gaussian Distribution of carge along the skin of an aircraft. Essentially, electrons repel each other and spread out on the skin. But with EMP inducing current throughout the aircraft/missile, that scheme simply gets overwhelmed. It doesn't work. And the slightest aperture (hole) in the system would allow EMP to enter the missile and fry internal components. "Holes"... like where the exhaust is emitted. And the delivery system for CHAMP effects isn't just a missile anymore... a pod carrying the emitter can be carried under the wing of aircraft like gun pod or bomb... on all sorts of aircraft, including F-16's.

    In the section of the section of the article addressing "What does CHAMP actually do?" the author seems amazed that EMP can be generated without a nuclear weapon. Nukes do, indeed, produce EMP, but so does your microwave oven... that's why you can't put ferrous metals in your microwave. Just like an EMP weapon such as CHAMP, your microwave oven induces current. That's what heats up your food. Current coursing through anything (from microcircuits to hot dogs) generates heat. It warms up your hot dog and melts microcircuits in the exact same way.

    The author seems to think that only kinetic weapons such as bullets and missiles that attack incoming can knock them down. He seems not to realize that an expanding and contracting magnetic field can cover large areas and anything passing through these fields will have current induced in them... and in the case of microcircuits, they will fry, just like the old fashioned fuse in your grandmothers fuse box in the basement or a blown fuse in your car.

    Being able to generate large areas of EMP effects is a great way to address air defense. Anything dependent on printed circuits, like missiles and nukes, would be disabled as it entered the area. The author does make a good point that it would be ineffective against North Korean artillery. Their old artillery is generally fused with mechanical "PD" (Point Detonating) fuses that go off when they hit the ground. EMP is useless against mechanical devices. It needs small circuitry that cannot handle the induced current without melting. It doesn't work against bullets either. Or rockets. Rockets aren't guided, they go where they are pointed, like bullets.

    But against missiles that are guided with complex circuitry, nukes that are detonated with complex circuits, and most aircraft that can only fly with complex circuitry throughout their design... EMP is tremendously effective. That's one reason that the "Huey" (UH-1) helicopter will always be with us. It predates microcircuitry, and while it uses some for added on radars and such, it can fly with microcircuits. That's why you'll see almost every General in charge of a tactical unit that might actually go to war... always has a UH-1 handy.
     
    Dayton3 likes this.
  8. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    722
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's an EMP weapon of some kind.
     
  9. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    722
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That is not my assessment.

    Iran does have some ballistic missiles that they can fire at Israel. But once those are expended I don't see what else they will be able to do.


    I don't care about experts. I value facts and logic. I'll listen to the experts' arguments, but if they make a claim that I know to be untrue, I won't disregard reality just because they said differently.

    I know that it's a fact that Israel has 5000-pound bunker busters.

    I also know that it's a fact that Iran's bunkers are poorly designed and vulnerable to 5000-pound bunker busters.


    That is interesting. I stand corrected.
     
    Poohbear likes this.
  10. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    26,191
    Likes Received:
    14,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It proves what I said. Taiwan has been cutting military, not building them up.

    They'll have to fight with the army that they have.

    Thoughts and prayers.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  11. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    722
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I didn't see anything in the article that said that. The article said that they had some problems, but they knew about them and were striving to fix them.


    Do you have any objections to us selling them F-35s (or similarly advanced fighters)?

    What do you think we should do if China threatens doom if we sell them such weapons?


    We'll help them out.
     
  12. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    26,191
    Likes Received:
    14,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I said "Taiwan’s military has shrunk to 187,660 active-duty soldiers, from 275,000 in 2011". You asked for a link, which I provided one which says the same thing, but you pretend to not see it.

    Don't waste my time again.

    We should never help countries who refuse to do it themselves. We just got pout of Afghanistan where we spent 20 years fighting for people who couldn't want to surrender as soon as we stopped carrying their water.
     
  13. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,482
    Likes Received:
    6,747
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That's a gross misrepresentation about what happened in Afghanistan.
     
  14. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    26,191
    Likes Received:
    14,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Its exactly what happened. We made a deal which announced out pull-out, and the deal gave Afghans the option to negotiate with the Taliban, which they did and they agreed to turn the country over to Taliban. Why do you think they were able to simply walk into the cities without opposition? It was as per agreement between Afghans and Taliban.

    As for Taiwan, they have been cutting spending and cutting the size of their military because they think US will fight on their behalf. That is ridiculous, and they will regret making such stupid assumption.
     
  15. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    722
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I wasn't pretending. That was one brief line in a long article.

    That brief line in the article does not provide any context for the reduced figures. For example, if that shrinking of troop numbers allows those 187,660 soldiers to be much better trained and equipped, that could make for a stronger defense.


    I disagree. Providing such aid makes a better world for us to live in.

    But note that Taiwan is not a country that is refusing to help themselves.


    Here are the weapons that we've sold to Taiwan:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_arms_sales_to_Taiwan

    How is it Taiwan's fault when we refuse to sell them a weapon because of threats from China?
     
  16. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2017
    Messages:
    45,011
    Likes Received:
    12,547
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It has nothing to do with cowardice. Presidents don't do any fighting.

    (No one who even services as President is a coward because of the very real threat of assassination.)
    Oh, please. We never cared about Afghanistan. Not in the 1980s when we were bleeding the Soviet Union and not when we stepped on them in 2001. The Taliban waited us out. Trump was the guy who walked away. Afghans knew the jig was up when Trump negotiated with the Taliban.
    Not entirely true. Arguably, however, we haven't helped them enough.
     
  17. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,482
    Likes Received:
    6,747
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Wrong on both counts but you'll never understand the truth anyway.
     
  18. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    26,191
    Likes Received:
    14,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yea, sure, same to you.
     
  19. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2017
    Messages:
    45,011
    Likes Received:
    12,547
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Are you saying Trump was naïve? Why didn't he say something while he was still President and the scheduled exit of all US forces was days away?
    He changed the date for good reason. We were in no position to get all the people out who would have wanted to leave. Trump left us unprepared.
    I wonder if you have any criticism of Trump or you're just about propagandizing us.
     
  20. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,482
    Likes Received:
    6,747
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Regardless of whatever "agreement" with the Taliban or "schedule" Trump made, the bottom line is Biden had half a year to refine, renege or alter any agreement and/or reschedule U.S. withdrawal. Implying that Biden had to follow Trumps choices in lockstep regarding Afghanistan are ridiculous. e
    If President Biden could have simply announced to Congress and the American people "President Trumps plan was rushed and is undoable. U.S. withdrawal is going to take another 18 to 24 months at least" and can be halted entirely if there are any renewed attacks on U.S. troops or U.S. citizens there.

    It isn't like Americans were marching in the street for withdrawing U.S. troops.
     
    Ddyad and Toggle Almendro like this.
  21. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    26,191
    Likes Received:
    14,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, that's not the case. They have been cutting back, when they should be investing more.

    This is how their military is structured:
    36,232 Taiwanese military officers,
    89,706 non-commissioned officers,
    44,127 native soldiers
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2022
    Ddyad likes this.
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    64,098
    Likes Received:
    13,594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A good point - The Taliban were on best behavior during the withdrawl .. and smart to do so .. as there were being given the Nation.
    Now instead of military equipment . like previous .. we should be sending Food .. as folks are starving.

    Taiwan is perhaps one of the toughest issues of this decade. They can spend what they like .. will not help them stave off China should China choose to take over.
     
  23. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2017
    Messages:
    45,011
    Likes Received:
    12,547
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What did he do right? Healthcare is still messed up. Drug prices are the highest in the world. He gave 85% of the tax cut to people making $400,000 a year after saying he wouldn't cut the top rate. The economy in Trump's first three years grew about the same as Obama's last three. No President in recent memory has renewed our infrastructure, including Trump. He completely blew our response to covid.
     
  24. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    722
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    They are investing quite a bit:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_arms_sales_to_Taiwan


    That doesn't mean much without context.
     
  25. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    722
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Many of the weapons that we have sold them will be of great use in resisting a Chinese invasion.

    Of course, our own entry into the war will help as well.
     

Share This Page