You have that backwards. Delusions of grandeur are demonstrated by believing one will live in paradise by believing there is an omnipotent, omnipresent and totally undetectable superbeing watching over each one of us - while all others will head to eternal damnation.
Delusion is believing that the Universe and life on Earth spontaneously arose, when mathematics and statistics show that approaches complete impossibility. Besides God dictated a Book for us.. ('cause we seem to forget what He has done for us rather quickly; and we don't seem to listen well either).That's the subject of this thread.. not your denigration of Christian beliefs. Stay on topic.
That's just not factually correct. Jews were divided on issues related to Jesus. There were those who believed he was leading Jews astray. There were those who accepted Jesus as a prophet. There were Jews who accepted Jesus as one with god, or an angel and reconciled that with Judaism. There wasn't some sudden divide. Yes - there were those who interpreted the events of the day as being the start of a new religion. But, there were also people who did not see it that way. The fact that you can find someone in ancient times who believes as you do (??) doesn't mean that there was an immediate split. It just means that there was at that time someone (like the anonymous author of Acts) who advocated for your view. And, it's no surprise that THAT work would be included in the NT - it was the winning view of Jesus, with Judaism losing. As for your "defeated followers", let's remember that they were living under Roman rule. It shouldn't be surprising that Jews some were ready to take action. I should have qualified that. I'm saying what you said here - they each faced persecution. OK, yous started this! So: Obviously progressivism is not a religion. And, it promotes cooperation, not conflict. Today, our issues involve how we work together, how we respect and promote good governance, how we work with other nations, how we treat our own citizens when it comes to issues of justice and opportunity. Those ARE progressive issues. So, that part is right. BUT, the Christian response has been to support those who promote racial and ethnic division, wgi make life worse for those with low income, who work to DECREASE access to healthcare, who undermine even the basic principles of good governance On top of that, we're in a time where abuse even of CHILDREN is an issue - through the Catholic church, through the government taking children for long periods of incarceration (and, in some cases, permanent separation from their parents), etc. Once again, we see a budget proposal from our president where help for humans is cut in numerous ways in order to augment our war machine. Christians should become more progressive.
I've asked this before but nobody seems to be able to answer this; why is the Bible subject to criticism? Why when reading it does it not speak plain and simple truth in such a way that I am on my knees and in tears? Instead I am here complaining about the parts allowing slavery and pointing out how science disproves the idea of a planet wide flood. Why are there better written books out there to read? This is supposed to be the words of a God and yet He is unable to write even a good book? Why can't the Bible be its own authority? Why do we need a middle man with a white collar explaining it? Why does the Bible throw its believers into confusion (hence the thousands of denominations)? We atheists often make jokes that the author of Revelation was under the influence of drugs when writing such a bizarre and cryptic text. Some Christians say how the Bible has given them a sense of peace and purpose in their life. The Bible has also given wackos like William Miller and Charles Taze Russell ideas of timelines and end dates!
If you believe you know better than God, that seems to define, 'delusions of grandeur!' pretty well.. That was the argument presented, not the 'either/or' dichotomy of God's existence. But it is the usual practice of some to move the goalpost mid argument, to render a false impression.
Perhaps: 1. Some have given their opinions, but you don't accept them. 2. You have unreasonable expectations, from a compilation of books. 3. Your information base consists of third hand opinions and phony caricatures from competing religionists, not the bible itself. 4. Your assumptions are not true. 5. 'Better!' is a subjective opinion. 6. Your biases and prejudice blind you to the wealth of Truth in the biblical texts.
This is a smear by association, or the Reductio ad Hitlerum fallacy. There is no connection between the biblical texts and the actions of despots, deceivers, or sociopaths. 'Hitler quoted the bible!' is a typical Argumentum ad Nazium. Plenty of scoundrels, charlatans, and deceivers have misused the bible, or the Constitution, or respected persons, or science, or any number of influential or revered human elements, to acheive some nefarious agenda. That does not tarnish the original, except by fallacy.
I don't accept your totally unsubstantiated idea that there exists a supernatural. So, your comment falls apart immediately., Mine is the position of total humility - NOT grandeur. I'm saying that when I die, I'll be dead as your great aunt's cat. I'm saying that there is no possibility for me to invoke the gods to forgive any ill that I do. I'm saying there is no god that could possibly care what the hell (!?) happens to me now or throughout eternity. I'm saying that when I look through a microscope or a telescope I see what's there - not what was painted by some god for my entertainment. There isn't anything "grand" about that. On the other hand, Christians brag of talking with the gods and how God cares about them so much that he's preparing a place in paradise, just for them! They get their tresspasses forgiven by supernatural beings (or the Pope, I guess). They believe they were given some important "purpose" that they are fulfilling. They're on an Important Mission! They believe that part of that purpose MIGHT be to "save" me, a person of such deprecated status that I will be burned in hell forever for simply existing! And, you think I am the one dancing with grandeur? I'm not sure what you're referring to with your comment on "either/or" dichotomy.
1. nothing to say 2. Expectations are naturally high if you invoke a supernatural element to a text and especially if that supernatural element is the absolute source of wisdom. It is a tragedy then that those expectations are not met. 3. My information and conclusions come from direct observation including reading the Bible and observing actions of believers. 4. See no. 3 5. As is 'Bible is best' 6. Again, I've read the Bible and other books. That ancient tome speaks for itself. Making the Bible a tool for both good and evil takes away any uniqueness it asserts by being the words of Yahweh. It's just another aspect of humanity rather than the ultimate source of truth and path to salvation.
You asked for a different perspective, and i provided it. It seems to me that #1 is the relevant point. I know that i am the 'whipping boy!' for those with issues with God or Christianity. I don't mind. But if you ask an open question, and i give a thoughtful, extensive answer, a little appreciation and consideration would be nice. Attacking my points with caricatures and derision only makes me hesitant to believe there is a sincere interest in understanding.
Well let's try something. I'll try not to make any "caricatures and derision" while you try to explain slavery in the Bible. My objection is that the Bible allows slavery. The conclusion I come to from that objection is that the Bible cannot be timeless wisdom and not the words of an all knowing deity. I'll run down all the apologetics for it: 1. Allowing is not condoning. This is a distinction without a difference. It's like holocaust by-standing. 2. The culture of the ancient world must not be viewed by modern standards. Well then it is dated wisdom and not timeless wisdom which is what the Bible is supposed to be. The instructions on how to treat a slave are of no relevance to the present day Christian. 3. Indentured servants were treated like family members and were only temporary. Their system was revolutionary for the time. Indentured servants were only fellow Hebrews. Foreigners were still slaves for life. If the standards of slavery in the Bible are something to be praised over, would you like to be my slave today? From a secular perspective, I support incrementalism by gradually over time giving people more freedoms and rights. In the United States for example; first you freed the slaves, then you had universal suffrage. But an all knowing deity must express human rights in the ultimate and and absolute form. 4. The New Testament teaches that slave and free are all equal in God's love. Well then why not show the greatest gesture of love and command the slave owner allow the slave the freedom to walk away? God granted man free will right? Why not clarify that teaching with an amendment that abolishes slavery. I have answered all the excuses.
You didn't need me at all! You provided all the straw men needed, to destroy my arguments.. you're not really wanting my reply, just for me to pick from your smorgasbord of straw men.. Why bother?
Well now that I have destroyed all my "straw men", where is the real man standing behind them? Those "straw men" by the way were placed so I do not hear/read anything I've heard before from other Christians. One more straw man for good measure: 5. Many Christians were abolitionists As were many upholders. What makes Christianity special then?
'Here is an argument on your level. Kansas is real. Kansas has tornadoes. Most doctors say you will be killed if you are hit by a falling house. THE WIZARD OF OZ IS REAL!
..and here is your 'argument!': 'your dum!!' But i do enjoy the examples of fallacies that the helpful posters here contribute.
https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/14-34.htm 1 Corinthians 14 : 34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Yes. I have a conscience. And I don't treat women as subhuman. If God can't figure that out, he needs help. Everyone depends on their own judgement; even those who claim to depend on God's judgement. They have to use judgement to determine which scriptures, preachers, or impulses they attribute to God they would like to actually believe come from God.
Heaven is not a democracy and Democracy is not Heaven. No one forces YOU under the threat of death, etc. to accept the Bible. Why do you hang here? Trolling? How NOT so? If all you have to offer is 21st century politically correct morality, that is ignorant and juvenile. And sure resembles trolling, y'think? Probably not If @yardmeat cares about females so much, look up Deborah linked above in the story of Deborah, Barak, Sisera, and Jael too. She was a Judge. How did a woman become a "judge". The "rulers" before any kings. How about coming back with some insight regarding Deborah and share it. I doubt . . . .
Then "Heaven" needs some desperate fixin'. What are you even talking about? Did you mean to respond to another post? Did you not read mine? Did you accidentally roll your face across the keyboard? Those are the only options I can think of at the moment. Yeah, Deborah and Jael were awesome. So, why abandon the concept of women in leadership positions as you have promoted?
