The Catholic Church is a criminal organization...

What a luck that the Holy Father is the servant of the servants of god and your will as a servant of god seems to be to bind the Protestants in heaven otherwise you would not warn them not to be bound. Can it be that our catholic faith is sometimes a little sophisticated? Try to stay in your love - even if it doesn't change anything in the minds of hate[rs] - you will feel better.

http://youtu.be/anxR2e73eyY

Land of bear and land of eagle
Land that gave us birth and blessing
Land that called us ever homewards
We will go home across the mountains
We will go home, we will go home
We will go home across the mountains
We will go home, we will go home
We will go home across the mountains

Land of freedom land of heroes
Land that gave us hope and memories
Hear our singing hear our longing
We will go home across the mountains
We will go home, we will go home
We will go home across the mountains
We will go home, we will go home
We will go home across the mountains

Land of sun and land of moonlight
Land that gave us joy and sorrow
Land that gave us love and laughter
We will go home across the mountains
We will go home, we will go home
We will go home across the mountains
We will go home, we will go home
We will go home across the mountains

When the land is there before us
We have gone home across the mountains
We will go home, we will go home
We will go home across the mountains

 

I should be offended by the title of this thread, but the sheer stupidity of it does not let me get angry.

The Catholic Church has produced the likes of Mother Theresa, St Francis of Assisi, John Paul II.... ....great artists like Michaelangelo and Raphael.... ....many of the greatest mind and most giving people throughout the ages have been Catholic. Criminal organization? Only a perverted mind could come to that conclusion.

The Church is made up of every race. We are young and old, rich and poor, men and women, sinners and saints. Our family has spanned the centuries and the globe. With God’s help, we have established hospitals and orphanages. We are the largest charitable organization on the planet bringing help to those in need. We educate more children than any other scholarly or religious institution. We developed the scientific method and laws of evidence. We founded the college system. We defend the dignity of all human life and uphold marriage and family. Cities were named after our revered saints. Guided by the Holy Spirit, we compiled the bible. We are transformed by sacred scripture and sacred tradition which has consistently guided us for 2,000 years. Jesus Himself laid the foundation of our Church when he said to Peter, the first Pope, "You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church." We are over one billion in number and for over 2,000 years we have had an unbroken line of shepherds guiding the Catholic Church with love and truth in a confused and hurting world. In this world filled with chaos, hardship, and pain it is comforting to know that some things remain consistent, true, and strong-our Catholic faith.


[video=youtube;Vs6qZd_xP1w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs6qZd_xP1w[/video]

 

Sorry I can only get to the computer on certain days and have had no chance to make a response top this, But I will in a new post as ther is probably not much room on this one.

 

Okay, except the 1 billion people aren't the Catholic Church, they are adherents TO the Catholic Church's dogma. What is on trial should be the institution that is claiming it is handing out divine decrees from heaven... that somehow seem to change with secular morality, strangely enough.

 

I agree: Any church that claims to hand out divine decrees from heaven should be avoided. Fortunately the Catholic Church cllaims no such thing.

 

Some people cannot naturally have children. Now where in the Bible does it say they should not use IVF. The Catholic Church teaches this ot be wrong but it does not go by Sola Scriptura as you do. So please tell me where in the bible it states this. The same applies for contraception.
Also you claim no institution has the authority only the Bible. Well tell me who told you the Bible was inafflible, and contained authority in the first place?.
Protestants disagree on the Catholic Church being wrong but none of them can agreee on what it is wrong on. Any teaching not accepted by a branch of Protestantism is accepted by an other branch.
Protestants claimto go on Sola Scriptura and say it's interpretation is quite evident when it is plain to see it is not, otherwise we would not have so many different branches of Protestantism.
Protestants go on the assumption if it sounds or feels right then it is true.
From what you state then anyone can have authority to compile the Bible. This is utter nonesense, it cannot be infallible then. If the Bible was wrong with some of the books in it until the 1500s when then Martin Luther removed 7 of them, who is stay those who compiled it in the first place could not have been wrong about more of them or even them all. Why accept the authority of some and reject others it makes no sense. Bythe way St. Thomas Aquinas was faithful to the authority of the Church.
The NT is lies are you serious then all your beliefs about Christianity are founded on nothing.
The Bible was not compiled till long after Jesus died.
I also believe something is around the corner and man has falling into a cess pit. I think there is dark times ahead for mankind unless we change our ways.
By God's authority Martin Luther removed 7 books, well how come they were good enough to go by for over a 1000 years. How do we know Martin Luther had God's authority?. What if someone decides in other 200 years to remove another 7 will that also be by God's authority?.

 

....What Catholic Church do you belong to, then?

 

There is only one true Church. Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:1 8 ). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return.

Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.

Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, because any merely human organization would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2).

The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8 )
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28 ). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20).

He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.


Adapted from this source: http://www.catholic.com/documents/pillar-of-fire-pillar-of-truth

 

Yes, I've already read this crap and responded to it in your thread. You said that the Catholic Church does not hand down divine decrees, but it does... so I'm confused about why you said it did not.

 

Considering how many Catholics starting from as far back when it became a State religion to today that is not saying much. Those who are in it that do do some good are doing it despite the poor example the others.

 

Jesus said there would be tares among the wheat. Personally, if I found a church where everyone was perfect, THAT is what I would be suspicious of. Thank God I am among sinners, because I am a sinner and Jesus came for me.

 

Its too bad you didn't learn anything

 

It's too bad that you probably haven't read the reply, because it pokes logical holes into your copy-paste job that you keep posting around the forums.

 

Yes, but He was referring to the world and not the Church exclusively. And nowhere in the Bible does it refer to those who are being lead by the Holy Spirit as sinners......God calls His people righteous. A sinner is one who practices and lives in sin.

 

Oh, I don't know about that. We all sin once in a while. The more we try to live a Godly life we grow in sanctification and sin less and less, but we sin. The alternative is to say we are not sinners, and I am pretty sure that the Bible says quite the opposite

 

Yes, but that is beside the point.....God sees all those who are filled with His Spirit as righteous. Remember Jesus called Able and the prophets righteous. I'm a son of God and not a sinner.


Matthew 23:35 (ASV)
35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.

Matthew 13:17 (ASV)
17 For verily I say unto you, that many prophets and righteous men desired to see the things which ye see, and saw them not; and to hear the things which ye hear, and heard them not.

You will not find anywhere in the Bible where God called those who are filled with His Spirit sinners.

 

Romans 3:10.

Next.

 

No one is righteous of themselves that is what it is saying.......but a child of God is righteous because he is cloth with the rightness of Jesus.

Romans 3:22 (ASV)
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;

Romans 13:14 (ASV)
14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

So I repeat......nowhere in the Bible where God calls spirit lead people sinners.

 

Neither of your quotes negate the former.

I also like you pursue commerce and Christ at the same time with your marketing with your signature. Christ would be very proud.

 

I always find this ironic. When Catholics discuss the Immaculate Conception, many protestants scream, "All have sinned!!" and "None are righteous". But when they talk about themselves, all of a sudden nobody is a sinner.

I may not find anywhere in the Bible where God called those who are filled with His Spirit sinners, but I sure don't find Him saying that people are not sinners either.

 

Mary was not chosen because she was sinless because she was not.

Mary called the Lord her savior.
Luke 1:46-47 (NKJV)
46 And Mary said: "My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.

Mary needed a savior just like everyone else.

No, He use the word wicked......Jesus even called the Jews who hated Him children of Satan. God makes a distintion between His sons (children) who are born of the spirit and those who are not.

 

Yes she was. And I quote:


QUOTE:
The Immaculate Conception

It’s important to understand what the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is and what it is not. Some people think the term refers to Christ’s conception in Mary’s womb without the intervention of a human father; but that is the Virgin Birth. Others think the Immaculate Conception means Mary was conceived "by the power of the Holy Spirit," in the way Jesus was, but that, too, is incorrect. The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what "immaculate" means: without stain. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings.

When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you" (Luke 1:28 ). The phrase "full of grace" is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.

The traditional translation, "full of grace," is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of "highly favored daughter." Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for "daughter"). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind.Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning "to fill or endow with grace." Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence.

Fundamentalists’ Objections

Fundamentalists’ chief reason for objecting to the Immaculate Conception and Mary’s consequent sinlessness is that we are told that "all have sinned" (Rom. 3:23). Besides, they say, Mary said her "spirit rejoices in God my Savior" (Luke 1:47), and only a sinner needs a Savior.

Let’s take the second citation first. Mary, too, required a Savior. Like all other descendants of Adam, she was subject to the necessity of contracting original sin. But by a special intervention of God, undertaken at the instant she was conceived, she was preserved from the stain of original sin and its consequences. She was therefore redeemed by the grace of Christ, but in a special way—by anticipation.

Consider an analogy: Suppose a man falls into a deep pit, and someone reaches down to pull him out. The man has been "saved" from the pit. Now imagine a woman walking along, and she too is about to topple into the pit, but at the very moment that she is to fall in, someone holds her back and prevents her. She too has been saved from the pit, but in an even better way: She was not simply taken out of the pit, she was prevented from getting stained by the mud in the first place. This is the illustration Christians have used for a thousand years to explain how Mary was saved by Christ. By receiving Christ’s grace at her conception, she had his grace applied to her before she was able to become mired in original sin and its stain.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that she was "redeemed in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son" (CCC 492). She has more reason to call God her Savior than we do, because he saved her in an even more glorious manner!

But what about Romans 3:23, "all have sinned"? Have all people committed actual sins? Consider a child below the age of reason. By definition he can’t sin, since sinning requires the ability to reason and the ability to intend to sin. This is indicated by Paul later in the letter to the Romans when he speaks of the time when Jacob and Esau were unborn babies as a time when they "had done nothing either good or bad" (Rom. 9:11).

We also know of another very prominent exception to the rule: Jesus (Heb. 4:15). So if Paul’s statement in Romans 3 includes an exception for the New Adam (Jesus), one may argue that an exception for the New Eve (Mary) can also be made.

Paul’s comment seems to have one of two meanings. It might be that it refers not to absolutely everyone, but just to the mass of mankind (which means young children and other special cases, like Jesus and Mary, would be excluded without having to be singled out). If not that, then it would mean that everyone, without exception, is subject to original sin, which is true for a young child, for the unborn, even for Mary—but she, though due to be subject to it, was preserved by God from it and its stain.

The objection is also raised that if Mary were without sin, she would be equal to God. In the beginning, God created Adam, Eve, and the angels without sin, but none were equal to God. Most of the angels never sinned, and all souls in heaven are without sin. This does not detract from the glory of God, but manifests it by the work he has done in sanctifying his creation. Sinning does not make one human. On the contrary, it is when man is without sin that he is most fully what God intends him to be.

The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was officially defined by Pope Pius IX in 1854. When Fundamentalists claim that the doctrine was "invented" at this time, they misunderstand both the history of dogmas and what prompts the Church to issue, from time to time, definitive pronouncements regarding faith or morals. They are under the impression that no doctrine is believed until the pope or an ecumenical council issues a formal statement about it.

Actually, doctrines are defined formally only when there is a controversy that needs to be cleared up or when the magisterium (the Church in its office as teacher; cf. Matt. 28:18–20; 1 Tim. 3:15, 4:11) thinks the faithful can be helped by particular emphasis being drawn to some already-existing belief. The definition of the Immaculate Conception was prompted by the latter motive; it did not come about because there were widespread doubts about the doctrine. In fact, the Vatican was deluged with requests from people desiring the doctrine to be officially proclaimed. Pope Pius IX, who was highly devoted to the Blessed Virgin, hoped the definition would inspire others in their devotion to her.

UNQUOTE

source: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/immaculate-conception-and-assumption

 

You conveniently cut out the scripture that I post in which she called the Lord God her savior. Why would see say that if she was she never sinned? The Lord being with Mary was not unique to Mary....the same thing was said in the Old Testament of God's people.


2 Chronicles 15:2 (KJV)
2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.


1 Chronicles 22:18 (KJV)
18 Is not the LORD your God with you? and hath he not given you rest on every side? for he hath given the inhabitants of the land into mine hand; and the land is subdued before the LORD, and before his people.


In fact, God is with me as well as all of those in whom received the Holy Spirit. Remember what Jesus told His disciples about the Him and the Father coming and making their abode with them?

John 14:23 (ASV)
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

 

You obviously didn't even bother to read what you quoted. My post addresses that:

".........Besides, they say, Mary said her "spirit rejoices in God my Savior" (Luke 1:47), and only a sinner needs a Savior.

Let’s take the second citation first. Mary, too, required a Savior. Like all other descendants of Adam, she was subject to the necessity of contracting original sin. But by a special intervention of God, undertaken at the instant she was conceived, she was preserved from the stain of original sin and its consequences. She was therefore redeemed by the grace of Christ, but in a special way—by anticipation.

Consider an analogy: Suppose a man falls into a deep pit, and someone reaches down to pull him out. The man has been "saved" from the pit. Now imagine a woman walking along, and she too is about to topple into the pit, but at the very moment that she is to fall in, someone holds her back and prevents her. She too has been saved from the pit, but in an even better way: She was not simply taken out of the pit, she was prevented from getting stained by the mud in the first place. This is the illustration Christians have used for a thousand years to explain how Mary was saved by Christ. By receiving Christ’s grace at her conception, she had his grace applied to her before she was able to become mired in original sin and its stain.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that she was "redeemed in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son" (CCC 492). She has more reason to call God her Savior than we do, because he saved her in an even more glorious manner! ............."

 

In this case god would be evil, because only without sin virgin Mary was able to do the 100% free decision to bear him in his son and to become his mother.

http://youtu.be/DVrVgh5CD1c