The Correct Amount of Illegal Immigration?

We are a nation of immigrants. This is not in dispute. The United States -- like every other nation on Earth -- has an immigration policy of some sort that specifies the time, manner, and place where a person may cross its border. These policies vary widely, but the nations of the world generally recognize that sovereign nations have every right to enact whichever policies they see fit with regard to immigration. This is also not in dispute.

Over the past year, the current administration has all but ignored the laws of this particular sovereign nation -- going as far as flying unlawfully present persons around the country in the dead of night on unmarked planes and buying hotels across the country to house them. These people are probably decent people, but they are also criminals who have refused to recognize the sovereignty of the United States by willfully unlawfully crossing its border. There are other kinds of unlawfully present persons -- such as those who intentionally or inadvertently overstay a visa, for example, or those who make false asylum claims.

I would like to hear from the forum: In your view, what is the correct amount of illegal immigration? I'll go first...

ZERO.

 

While undocumented crossing of the border is a crime, unlawful presence in the US is actually not a crime at all. They haven't done anything criminally wrong. And if I'm remembering the stats correctly, isn't it like 60% of all undocumented immigrants are here on over extended visas?

 

The correct number of illegals in the country should be zero. I’d argue that in order to use our banking system a person has to have proof of citizenship or they can’t withdraw, deposit or transfer money. A foreigner shows their visa when opening an account and the account is locked on the visa expiration date unless the account is updated. Every bank doing business in the US would be required to follow this law I just proposed. No one on the left has ever argued against needing ID for banking, just voting.

 

So you want all tourists to be subjected to draconian rules. That ought to put an end to American tourists fast.

 

Agreed, it should be zero theoretically. Illegal aliens s/b deported. This is a global problem however and the US is the beacon on the hill. America has sold it's 'successes' globally for decades, however, so it's a bloody powerful magnet for migration of all types and now it a very profitable global business. I am also in favor for any company hiring illegals to be severely punished.

 

They can register their bank accounts when they apply for visas. Liberals will alway, always, always find something wrong with any plan to deter illegal immigration. Always.

 

That doesn't really answer the question.

 

ID for banking??? What kind of racist are you???

 

That must be why Republican’s stand in the way of all proposals (from Republican and Democratic administrations) to fix the immigration system.

 

if illegal immgration went to zero, and legal immigration did not increase, our GDP would be significantly impacted

 

Don't disagree.

 

Im sure theories vary, but it used to be that a 'looking for work' rate of around 3% was considered an ideal balance between demand for workers and demand for jobs (where work gets done but at decent wages). I'd say when it drops below that, its time to bring in more workers.

 

We pay 18600 border patrol agents to guard our Mexican border,are you saying that are all just screwing around doing nothing ????

 

~ The immigration system does not need to be "fixed" -- it needs to be enforced.

​

 

I lived in China for three years (legally, LOL) and I had a local bank account (Bank of Beijing or "BJ Bank" as I like to call it ha ha). I literally had to fill out a phone book's worth of information, using a translator. The translator had to use the pen the bank provided her. SHE COUOLD NOT USE HER OWN PEN. I was photographed, fingerprinted, and interviewed. They got copies of my employment contract, my work permit, my marriage license, my apartment lease, and a copy of every single page of my passport (including visas from other countries). I was shocked when the bank teller didn't put on a pair of rubber gloves for further examination (not that I would have mined, she was awfully cute).

I kept less than 10% of my salary in China, moving the rest monthly (and my wife's as well) by a process I can only call "extralegal." The CPC makes it very difficult to move money out of the PRC. Foreigners are limited to $50,000 USD/yr. and there's a TEN PERCENT FEE and a $500 daily limit! Meaning to move $50K, you have to pay $5,000 in fees and VISIT THE BANK 100 TIMES!!!!

Well, I needed to move quite a bit more than $50K, so my assistant would move the money for me. She was local. They can move $1M and the fee is like 0.001%, and there is no daily limit. So we would go to the bank the day after I got paid and Sylvia would tell them she wanted to move some money to the United States. They would take my money in cash and wheel it out to me on a cart. I would put my hands on the money and say "Wo gei ni zhe biqian. Yi-ga-li-wu" ("I give you this money as a gift"). I would slide the bricks of ¥100 notes with Mao's smiling face over to her and she would say something to the effect of "I accept your generous gift." She would then fill out the paperwork to transfer the dough to my Wells Fargo account here in Merka. It was crazy.

 

Did not answer the question.

 

Did not answer the question.

 

Did not answer the question.

 

Oh. illegal.

Well thats like asking how many illegal drugs is OK or how much shoplifting is OK... technically zero, but since zero is impossible, it comes down to how much can we prevent before we spend more resources on prevention than the problem actually costs. Which can only be determined by an objective assessment. And most assessments we get on the issue are not objective.

So I dunno. I figure 1000/year prolly wouldnt hurt anything. 10,000/year prolly does measureable harm. So I say somewhere in between would be a reasonable goal.

 

Yes.

Irony: the same people who appear to have no problem with shoplifting and drug dealing are the ones who not only have no problem with illegal border crossing, but actively facilitate and promote it.

Could very easily be zero w/o inordinate depletion of resources in my view.

 

I spose that would depend on what an 'inordinate' depletion of resources would be.

How much is too much to spend on border security? Lets say 'per illegal immigrant stopped'.

 

Technically you are correct, for a brief amount of time. You can enter the country legally on a visa, overstay the visa, and be here unlawfully, but...you didn't enter the country illegally. However if caught you can still be detained and deported...or you used to. I don't think the Biden administration is actually enforcing that.

The problem, for illegals who entered the country legally and illegally, as once here, when you start working, you are breaking the law. To get a job lawfully, you need:
Valid ID
Social Security Card
Attest to being either a US citizen or resident allowed to work

So for an illegal who either gets paid under the table or gets fraudulent documents to obtain work you are committing multiple felonies. So most illegals who have been here for any length of time are guilty of felonies many times over.

So they're criminals.

 

By how much? How much of our yearly GDP growth is due to illegal aliens?

 

We don't need to spend a dime if we simply shut off the magnet.

 

Agreed.

Agreed.

We simply need to shut off the magnet. Unfortunately nobody in recent history has had the political will to do that.

Agreed, Part of shutting off the magnet. And the laws are there - it's just nobody dares enforce them.

The enforcement provisions of IGRA (1986 aka "Simpson-Mazzoli") were forgotten about before the ink was even dry on Reagan's signature. Too many people benefit from illegal border crossing and unlawfully present persons to actually do anything about it.