The cost of Kavanaugh's victory?

Democrats didn't show up, or they didn't vote for Hillary.

 

Yes Golem - those are good examples but - only from a small slice of history. There have been many windows that have opened up where freedom has won.

Now my list

1000 years of horror after the Church Got power under Constantine - that is a long stretch of the bad guys winning.
The Communist Party in China is still in power and Saudi Arabia is still going strong.
I can go on and on giving examples throughout history but lets now focus on the specific time period and nation you have chosen.

This land was founded on respect for individual liberty. "land of the free - home of the brave" "Give me liberty or give me death". It is now our "Patriotic Duty" to trade essential liberty for temporary security on the basis of fear of a risk of harm that is 400 times less than the risk of harm from walking.

Individual liberty is being trampled on by the Establishment (which is both red and blue political and bureaucratic elite under the influence of international financiers).

Wealth inequality continues to increase.

The founders set up a system where the power of Gov't was to be limited. For 200 years Gov't has been trying to get that power back - and they have succeeded. I call our current system the Oligopoly-Bureaucracy Fusion Monster.

Extreme capitalism and extreme socialism (totalitarian communism for example) meet at the far end of the spectrum. In both cases you end up with a few elite owning most resources and means of production. The bad guys win in both cases.

The problem with this time is that revolution is far more difficult. In previous days when things got so bad the Authoritarian wing nut was taken out by his own soldiers. Soon we will have robots providing security - entities with no moral compass .. what then.

Transparency in Gov't is at an all time low. We are attacked by terrorists - Al Qaeda - in 2001. A decade later out Gov't is arming and supporting this group in Syria and the media manages to cover it up. We now live in a propaganda state.. and the big enemy is not Russia.

In 2013 it became legal for our intelligence agencies to create and disseminate propaganda on US citizens.

Lets just say that your claim "the good guys Always win" was a little optimistic

 

Correct .. and why would they ? I think the middle is growing. The anti establishment is movement was big on both sides of the fence.

Not only was Hillary a known Establishment wonk .. she was so obnoxious, arrogant and condescending that many Dem women did not like her. No plan .. nothing to vote for. All she did was "bad Trump .. bad Trump" This can not have been the advice of her advisers. She did her own thing at her own peril.

I can honestly say that I have no clue how things will go in the midterms. One thing I can say however is that anti-Establishment movement is bigger now than it was during the 2016 election.

What is it now .. 10% say they have faith in congress ? Holy Carp .. can it get any worse? A good 20% or more of the population are abject idiots which means that even most idiots get it.

 

Hillary's major **** up was her contempt for what she considers fly over country, a mistake the Democrats haven't realized. They continue to have contempt for them. Saying things like we should do away with the electoral college so these contemptable States bow to their coastal masters. That's exactly how Trump won.

 

So the last time that it was a Republican majority is when the court was "undoing" things?

How is the Civil Rights Act not still as strong as it always was?

Columbia v Heller? Was this unconstitutional or something?

Citizens United v FEC? Was this unconstitutional or something?

What case was this?

What is wrong with voting as a block?

What, these cases? Are you saying that they NEEDED to be supported by precedent?

Adverse reaction in the form of what exactly?

 

All countries do that. And why not? The demarcation lines are clear:
*Congress passes laws, and and governments enforce them.
*The SC interprets cases brought to it according to the law.
*Unfortunately, it is no longer that simple.

The problem derives in the "interpretation" as regards most cases that are non-criminal in nature. And the results have shown clearly by one of the most divisive courts (Conservative dominated) in recent history.

Most presidents assume that members of the SC will "judge" judiciously and without political PoV. But that is obviously not happening in the US. The Replicants decided a long time ago to "pack the court" and because the American voters allowed them to do so (by giving them a majority in the Senate) they took advantage of it.

But to have refused Obama because he was a Dem PotUS just because he was Dem PotUS is simply not on. But why? And the answer to that question is key!

Because they are in place for life! And that simply should not be! And so?

Their tenure gives them real long-term power to undermine laws imposed by Congress by "interpreting" those laws according to their political prejudices. We are all human and I defy anyone to prove s/he has not their preferences regarding choice.

Which means what?

We need an SC that rotates; meaning that judges are elected for 15-year tenures and then retired. Whyzzat?

It will assume some parity in the balance, since Presidents are for only 8 years at the most. The Right-Left shift will work with perhaps more evenness.

Another reason for judge-shifts: Because the world changes and thus so must interpretations of past law in the light of modern circumstances. Massachusetts once passed a law that allowed any state resident to shoot anybody crossing the state line from Connecticut!

Of course, that is a wild exaggeration of what is today nonetheless the same problem. The interpretation of laws is decided in an hierarchical judicial-process that leads eventually up to finally the Supreme Court.

That SC should be open-minded (neither Left nor Right and in the Middle). For the past 20 years that has not been the case. It has been decidedly conservative ...

 

Thank you... Female, 16 mos. right at 70 lbs. which is good size for a female, especially during summer months.

 

THE UNADULTERATED POPULAR-VOTE

Flyover country has the right to vote as do any elsewhere. Where they have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER is having a preferential preponderance* of the Electoral Vote in relation to the Popular-vote Count!

And if you "don't get that", then you need a course in Civics.

The unfairness of the vote is brought about typically by the idiocy of "first past the post, winner take all". Here is what the US map looks like when measured in terms of Electoral College vote per population count. Some states have a higher percentage than others. Meaning their EC-vote is more heavily weighted!

That's intrinsically unfair and should be made illegal in the election of a president!

And, please, no BS about the present voting system is "more fair" to small states. The Executive head of government of the nation should be decided by all citizens voting without the slightest preference for any given voters in any given state!

Thus, no result except that of the unadulterated popular-vote is reported to the HofR, which decides who becomes PotUS!

The consequence being that both parties fight on the same playing-field and the bonafide winner is elected !!!

 

If you have a problem with the electoral college you should take that up with the Constitution.

The reason it exists is so that new you're and LA aren't the nation's dictators.

We've never elected officials in popular vote, our system has never been a direct democracy and your dumbass candidate knew this going into it, if she didn't thank goodness she wasn't elected.

 

Minority!!!

Did you even bother to read the article you are submitting? Obviously not.

Only as Trump decisiveness increases the number of extremists. But nowhere even near a "majority"

That is the narrative that extremists would like to push. However, it only works because we are living under the mos divisive President in history.

I have no idea what what follows in your message has to do with the topic of this thread.

They won't need to. If they overturn Roe v Wade Democrats will have the political clout to pack the Supreme Court next time they win the Presidency. Politically, that would probably be the best case scenario. They won't overturn it, though.

There is no reason for her to recuse herself from ACA hearings. There was cause to recuse herself from some immigration issues. And she did. I would call that non-partisan.

However, the reason you expect Kagan to recuse herself is that she is an honest justice. You don't expect Clarence Thomas, for example, to recuse himself. Because you don't expect any non-partisan honesty from him. Or from any of the Republican justices. Therefore, we have made progress on this debate.

.
Wrong! They were not partisan. There is bi-partisan consensus that Trump is a liar.

 

I was talking about the U.s. but. Let's see...

And, in the end, we got Pope Francis.... a good guy.

And they both ended up being Capitalist nations.

Of course. Because the bad guys are still in charge. But, as I said: in the end, good guys always win.

Yes. Right now Republicans are attempting to form something akin to a dictatorship. They will lose. Because the good guys always win.

You need to catch up on the news. Communism lost the battle in the 80s. Your assertion is obsolete. There is not a single capitalist nation in the world that is in any danger whatsoever of becoming communist. Communism is a dead movement. What we have now is a handful of underdeveloped nations that struggle to rid themselves of the remnants of the era. In the end, their good guys will win.

You're watching too much Netflix.

Yes. Again: because the bad guys are in charge. But the good guys will win in the end. That's what I have been saying since my first post in this conversation.

Same as above.

As for the "arming" part. That just means the struggle is not over. Nobody has won. But the good guys will win in the end.

No idea what you're talking about.

And yet supported by historic events.

That the good guys always win doesn't mean that bad guys disappear from the face of the Earth. There will always be a new Trump, a new white supremacist group, or a new Mitch McConnell. And they will try to destroy this country for personal power and profit. But, they were born on the wrong side of history. And History will make sure they are disposed of.

 

OH good grief. Obviously one can point to times when the good guys happen to be on top and claim "LOOK - the Good guys won". The problem is that the battle was not over and so you can not claim that they have won indefinitely. At some point the bad buys will be on top again.

Your claim that the good guys always win is false. They don't. I could just as easily claim that the bad guys always win using the same logic you are using.

Glass half full ? or half empty ?

Side note - in 2013 it became legal for our intelligence agencies to create and disseminate propaganda on US citizens = the bad guys winning at the moment and freedom of the press losing big time.

The question is whether we are winning at the moment - going the right direction - and we are not. The bad guys are gaining momentum. The safeguards against totalitarianism have largely been removed and Gov't power keeps increasing.

Since you are a student of history ... tell me - What happens when Gov't power increases

Answer: corruption increases and abuse of that power. Power corrupts and more power corrupts more.

Side note 2 - (your Netflix comment was mindless denial of reality)

 

I don't know that there was an outspoken Republican majority before now. Though there were clearly partisan rulings. B

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2013/06/25/daily-circuit-supreme-court

"Something"..... Supreme Court took it upon itself to legislate giving a right that did not exist in the Constitution or in precedent. Obliterating the Science of Linguistics in the process.

Same as above.

Bush v Gore

SCOTUS is supposed to be a non-partisan institution.

Yes.

In the form of political payback.

 

The obvious reason it doesn't make sense to you is because you don't read ENTIRE POSTS as a complete thought. I recommend you don't try reading books either, in that manner.

Try again. If that still doesn't make sense to you, then I suggest you stop believing the lying liberal media.

Steve

 

That would be a valid point for things that have not yet been decided. But once decided, the good guys win. Obamacare is here to stay. Gay marriage is here to stay. Climate change Science has won even in the political arena. There is no turning back on Medicare, Social Security, women rights, ... Sure, the bad guys will continue attacking these. But they're sounding the retreat..

These have undergone a long fight. Sometimes the good guys were on top, sometimes the bad guys. But

I get the point you're trying to make. Obviously some of this is tongue in cheek. But there is the right side of history, and there is the wrong side of history. On all the issues I have pointed out, the right is on the wrong side of history. They are fighting a fight that they can't win. Just like they couldn't win on the Social net, or civil rights. Trump, for example, has no positive legacy to his name. There is nothing that future Presidents or future generations will seek to maintain. It doesn't matter to him an his followers, because they have no long-term goals and no perception of anything beyond the next weeks. But times will catch up with them. The good guys will win because they are on the right side of history.

You mean like when a President becomes dictatorial? We will know soon enough. What happens is that there will be a push-back. Our forefathers and ulterior legislation has attempted to create safeguards against this. If they work, then we're fine. The safeguards will kick in, and the transition won't be too painful. But if they don't work, the push back will have to come from the people. And that can get very ugly. I've seen both options in other countries. The latter is not something we want to see in this country. But I'm confident the safeguards will work. Either way, the good guys will win in the end.

Exactly. And we're seeing that now.

 

I HAVE A DREAM

I wonder how that can be true in a nation that, if it is such a Great Democracy, has the worst voting habit of any developed nation? (See from Pew Research here: U.S. trails most developed countries in voter turnout.)

The will or desire in the US to earn tremendous bundles-of-money is perhaps stronger than any other developed country on earth. People think that millionaires are heroes and billionaires saints who walk-on-water.

The importance of money is vastly exaggerated. Moreover, a number of attempts in the past to make the country more fair have been stymied. Not willingly but indirectly due to lack of active pursuit.

I remember MLK's I Have a Dream speech at the Lincoln Memorial in DC. But, this is what has become of that dream:


It's nice to dream about a better future, but it takes resolve and ambitious undertaking to make that dream come true ...

 

That's because we are the only nation in which one of the political parties has established as it's primary electoral goal to keep people from voting. I am optimistic about that too. Good guys will win there too. The Parkland Generation is very promising.

I don't know what you mean by "people". I have seen some, especially on the right, who might believe that billionaires should be admired only because they have money. But I see no difference in any other country in the world. Except that we have more billionaires. Your comment seems a bit stereotypical and one-dimensional. Some billionaires deserve our admiration. Because of the way they achieved their fortune. And how they contributed to the betterment of humanity. Others are despicable. Like our President who obtained his by lying and cheating. But there is none of this "one size fits all" attitude.that you describe.

Not sure how to interpret a comment that starts talking about the importance of money being exaggerated, and ending with chart about household income. You would need to chose....

 

This is the point I am making Golem (see Bold) The safeguards are being - or have been removed - and when that happens the bad guys win - at least for awhile.

Typically- as the cycle of history goes and as you point out- that "a while" is not pretty and can last a very long time - sometimes 1000 years.

You pointed out a few of what I call "hot button issues" - Gay Marriage, Obamacare, SS, women's rights (Abortion). These are "wins" but the Establishment (aka bad guys although I disagree with this black vs white terminology in this case) doesn't care about these issues. These Hot Button issues (many of which have easy resolution) serve to keep the people divided into two camps. Keep them voting either Red or Blue - because they don't like the other side - which does nothing but maintain the status quo. This is the "bad guys" winning.

What you do not mention is the agenda that the Establishment does care about ... and we are losing badly on that front.

This is bread and circuses on a higher and sophisticated level.

Obamacare was a win for the Establishment - it maintained the Status quo - Healthcare Oligopolies and all the love that comes with Oligopolism - price fixing, anti competitive practices, anti trust and so on.

Total Military Spending was 300 Billion in 2000. Way too much given there is zero probability of a nation state massing a conventional army that has a legitimate chance of taking the homeland - and it has been this way since the advent of nukes.

After 8 years of Bush that spend went to 900 Billion and exceeded 1 Trillion under Obama. Had we maintained the 2000 spend - increasing with inflation - we could have diverted 500 Billion/year x 16 years = 8 Trillion to infrastructure, education, technology, ramping up our economy to compete in the third millennium.

Instead we threw this money down the toilet fighting useless wars on the basis of lies and propaganda - all supported by the MSM State propaganda machine - to pad the pockets of the international financiers (IFs) and national oligarchs that own the defense contractors.

450 Billion/year in interest payments on our debt x 16 years = 7 Trillion more you can add to that total.... padding the pockets of the same Oligarchs and IF.s

You can do the same calculation for Obamacare which costs double what other first world nations pay and we have no universal healthcare - again to pad pockets of same "bad guys".

Revenue for 2017 (not including payroll tax) Individual income tax 1.6 Trillion - Corporate income tax 300 Billion. Back in the 50's 60's it was a 50/50 split now it is 85/15.

Are you happy paying McDonalds portion of the tax for roads, infrastructure and so on ? Whose winning. Not the worker. Indentured servitude is winning.

Back to war spending/propaganda. It is now your patriotic duty to get on your knees and beg to give up essential liberty - on the basis of "fear" of a risk of harm that is 400 times less than the risk of harm from walking.

Obama change the name to the equally Orwellian doublespeak "Freedom Act". This is not winning.

Transparency is at an all time low - those that out Gov't crimes are persecuted (not talking Snowden or Manning - talking those who try to go through legitimate channels) and those who commit those crimes are given promotions. Folks such as Clapper.

Post is already too long so I will stop but - it should be clear that I do not share your optimism. Its not that we have it bad now. It was not that bad in most instances prior to totalitarianism taking hold ... the problem is that once the safeguards (and I only mentioned a few) are removed .. it is only a matter of time.

The bad guys this time are much more sophisticated to do not expect it to look like "Stalin's Russia" or Hitlers Germany .. it won't.

 

Perhaps you're not looking hard enough? .

You are nitpicking ...

Yes, let's hope it works its way out. The first step is the upcoming mid-terms.

We shall see the present mentality of the American people as regards the Replicants in office and up for reelection.

I, for one, am not convinced that Americans yet understand the pile of shat that has become their democracy, and which is due to the historic manipulation by the Replicant Party ever since Reckless Ronny took power in 2008 and reduced drastically upper-income taxation.

The amassing of money is the worst possible factor in any country, because it affects mentalities amongst those who benefit most. They think they can manipulate outcomes because they have financial means to do so.

Which is very dangerous in any democracy!

Look up the word in the dictionary?

Or, from here: The Morality Of Money: American Attitudes Toward Wealth and the Income Tax - Excerpt:

But is such admiration worthy of public acclaim? Or is it simply a question of jealousy? Methinks the latter of the two prevails.

Our heroes at the origins of the nation (Washington, Franklin, Hamilton) were not immensely rich men; but when such wealthy people manipulate the democratic voting process* to obtain an their preferred outcome, then they become very much less virtuous. In fact, they become dangerous.

Aberrant Income Inequality in America is what I was getting at.

Doesn't matter. Moving right along ...

*See here: Money Man and Cambridge Analytica

 

Kavanaugh’s confirmation likely hurts the Republicans in primaries. Since it is clear Republicans want to appoint sycophantic justices to promote their oligarchic agenda.

 

That's my point. Only for a while.

I don't think so. Especially not when the bad guys have no perception of consequences. You would need to plan ahead for anything to last. The Trump administration has no concept of planning ahead.

Not liking either side is the lazy way out. Deciding requires work. Because there will never be a solution that is anywhere near perfect. The fact that the red guys are the bad guys now is purely incidental. That could change. What we need to do is always be ready to identify who are the good guys and who are the bad guys at any moment. And that's not always easy. It's easy right now (and that's the reason why I use the "bad guys-good guys" terminology). But in normal times it's on an issue by issue basis.

Bush decided that a couple of wars were preferable.

Obamacare is not the solution, but it's a step forward from where we were. Many lives have been saved. Good guys will win eventually. We will have universal healthcare yet.

I mostly agree with everything you mention. But the same goes for it. We will recover. Future generations will look at what is happening today. Schools will teach from a detached perspective how we lost opportunities. But will celebrate the accomplishments. Bush will have few to show. Trump will have absolutely none.

Sometimes it takes more time. But every little battle has been won. We have pretty much a consensus now that the wars were idiotic. That Obamacare is preferable to what we had before.

All these things have woken up a movement that, I am confident, will fix many issues. The Parkland generation is one. The new faces in the Democratic Party come with great ideas while shedding the ideologues. I am optimistic because the signs are pointing in the right direction. More young people are participating. More women. More minorities. These are the groups that were the most battered. Because they refused to participate. Now, it's changing. It will take some time to reduce Trump's base, composed of white males over 60. It's just not a sustainable group. And that's what makes me optimistic.

 

Let's hope so. Because we have it hear in Europe and our life-span is 3 to 4 years longer than yours in the US:

 

Far and wide.

The Reagan generation is dying off. It has been cornered into the over-60/white/male demographic group. It had an impact, as it was composed primarily of Baby Boomers, with a "topping" of white supremacists. Newer generations are anti-ideologues, less partisan, more pragmatic.... In the past (as faaaar back as 2016) people voted based on whether the candidate had an R or a D next to their name. This is rapidly changing. Republicans can no longer rely on their "3G" argument (God, Gays and Guns) alone to get elected. So they turned to a cult-figure. But that won't last.

Republicans won in 2016 because Democrats produced the candidate they had spent almost 30 years preparing against. They expected her in 2008, and Obama blind-sighted them. But they were even more ready in 2016 That's gone. They have nothing to run for or against in 2020. And the more time passes, the more their base dwindles.

I disagree with that as a blanket statement. It can go either way. Money can produce a Trump. But it can also produce innovators. Bill Gates, Elon Musk, George Soros, Warren Buffett....

The most dangerous factor in any democracy is not billionaires. It's ideologues.

I know what the dictionary means by "people". My question was what you meant by "people"

If there is a society in the world that you do not want to try to stereotype, that's the American People. All attempts to do so fall into the same oversimplification that your quote illustrates. Didn't work in 1835, works even less today....

There is income inequality. There has been great income inequality in the past. It was corrected. It will be corrected again.

I am happy to respond to any point you want to make.

 

The 1000 years of horror under Christian Theocracy is not fiction.. it was reality for those who lived through it. This was in part made possible the dumbing down of the citizens.

We now are experiencing a different kind of dumbing down of the citizens. 12 years of school and we manage not to teach the basics of Philosophy (logic, logical fallacy, what constitutes a valid argument and critical thinking).

12 years of school and we manage not to teach the basic principles on which this nation was founded.

The "bad guys" are not just "Red". The Establishment consists of two colors - Red and Blue. Individual liberty is being trashed on both sides. Increases to Gov't and police power towards a quazi totalitarian police nanny state is being conducted from both sides.

The rule of law is being trashed on both sides.

We live in a propaganda state. The MSM (right, left and center) is a mouthpiece for the Establishment agenda.

Without the basic tools given above - how are these young folks supposed to weed through the cacophony of bad argument and fallacy that rains down on them on a daily basis from the MSM and Politicians.

The main issue with the Kavanaugh victory is not that he will try to overturn R v W. The issue is that we have a non elected person - put in place by less than an "Overwhelming majority" which should be at least 2/3rds as it once was - making laws on the basis of "Tyranny of the Minority" - laws that mess with essential liberty that do not even have 50% acceptance never mind 67% as is supposed to be the case in a republic.

This is on Blue as much as it is on Red. The baby was thrown out with the bathwater.

 

Why would anybody want to live 3 or 4 more years when they have to live them in Europe?

I'm kidding!!!!