The GOP's tax cut just keeps getting worse

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by MrTLegal, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    https://theweek.com/articles/822464/gops-tax-cut-just-keeps-getting-worse

    So let's review 5 of the alleged goals from the GOP Tax Cut.

    1) Boost Worker's Wages.
    - Once you adjust for inflation, worker's wages have not budged since Trump took office.
    #Fail
    2) Create Jobs. The number of new jobs created is almost precisely the same trend line as before the law was passed.
    upload_2019-2-11_10-38-8.png
    #Fail
    3) Create more investment.
    - New capital good orders (tracked by the Commerce Department) and new capital investment by small businesses barely changed from the same trend line.
    #Fail
    4) Return Corporate Profits from Overseas.
    - The overall trend of keeping money overseas has not shifted in the slightest.
    #Fail.
    5) Result in a larger tax rebate for most voters.
    - Tax Refunds are down an average of Eight Percent so far.
    #Fail

    All five of those alleged goals are failing. At best, the GOP was sloppy and bungled the implementation of its most significant policy initiative. At worst, the GOP intentionally deceived the American people solely to make corporate profits higher. Either way, the Government Accountability Office has already concluded that the Trump administration ****ed up the Federal Tax Withholdings.

    The only goal, the real goal, of the GOP tax cut is to drastically increase corporate profits. And by that standard, it was a resounding success. Corporate tax revenue is down 31%.

    Oh, and the federal deficit has increased by 17% despite a booming economy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  2. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Speaking purely from the standpoint of being retired, with a 'comfortable' but by no means FAT income, the Trump tax cut saved me about $1,000 in taxes overall. Not a big deal, really.

    What pisses me off is that neither Democrats or Republicans EVER do ANYTHING about getting rid of all the damned tax loopholes, tax shelters, exclusions, exemptions, deductions, and "carried interest". NOBODY does anything about those things -- not a radical, "populist" like Obama, not a hard-core Right-winger like Trump -- NOBODY.... So, both "Fat Cat" Republicans AND "Limousine Liberal" Democrats laugh all the way to the bank....

    And I still say that horribly unfair taxation is a much grearter problem than "income inequality". You could put the überwealthy in a 99% tax bracket, but if they REALLY end up paying little or nothing in taxes, what really happened...? :bounce:
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  3. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    You mentioned all of the tax loopholes, etc. and one of the supposed goals of the GOP tax cut was to also make tax much easier to understand. But they only rejiggered a bunch of deductions and loopholes and made tax lawyers more valuable than ever (the various firms with tax practices are nearly all adding more employees).

    The running joke amongst tax accountants and CPAs is that the bill should have been called the "Tax Jobs and Jobs Cuts Act."
     
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  4. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Well, as I indicated, this certainly wasn't what I would have wanted in a "tax cut" bill, but nobody ever listens to "little" people like me -- not my fine Republican Senator from Colorado, Cory Gardner, or my fine Democrat Senator from Colorado, Michael Bennet....

    But, I guess that if I'm about a 'grand' better off with Trump's piss-ant tax 'overhaul', then that "beats a poke in the eye with a sharp stick" -- which is all I ever got from Comrade Obama....
     
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  5. Bearack

    Bearack Well-Known Member

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    A flat tax would be the most equitable with 0 tax loopholes.
     
  6. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    I agree... and I can promise you -- that will NEVER happen so long as we have no one to represent us but the Republican and Democrat Parties.
     
  7. struth

    struth Banned

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    https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/income-tax-revenues-trump-tax-cuts-economic-growth/

    "The latest monthly budget report from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office finds that revenues from federal income taxes were $76 billion higher in the first half of this year, compared with the first half of 2017. That's a 9% jump, even though the lower income tax withholding schedules went into effect in February.

    The CBO says the gain "largely reflects increases in wages and salaries.""
     
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  8. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    What year? 2017 income reported in 2018? Or 2018 income reported this year?
     
  9. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Nobody seems to understand the purpose of the tax cuts. The idea was allow american companies to be more competitive in the international marketplace by putting their tax rates in line with those of other countries. The personal tax cuts had nothing to do with it other than to help sell it to the public. If they didn't remove tax shelters at the same time then they are greedy, corrupt and incompetent. That is why we refer to it as a swamp.
     
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  10. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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  11. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Well, there has been more investment ..... in stock buybacks as the article mentions. And it talks about the benefits for shareholders. But what most people don't know is that 60% of shares are held by corporate insiders and the buybacks serve to boost their income. And that began after Clinton got laws passed limiting CEO salaries to $1 million because corporate elite wanted to find a way around that law. And now, with corporations up against a wall in their effort to expand markets, sales, revenue, and growth, the buybacks keep the incomes growing for the rich corporatists.
     
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  12. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Did you know that your article is more than six months old?
     
  13. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Tax revenue from corporations are down 31%.
    Tax revenue, once inflation is factored in, is down between 4 and 9 percent.
     
  14. struth

    struth Banned

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    Are you suggesting that revenue has decreased since then?
     
  15. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    And your report did not account for inflation.
     
  16. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    The OP explicitly addresses that goal, along with several others.

    But here is some more information on why that particular goal failed.

     
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  17. struth

    struth Banned

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    How much has revenue decreased...has to be a lot from 9% to below what it was under Obama's last qtr.
     
  18. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    4-9% once you factor inflation

    See post #13.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  19. struth

    struth Banned

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    I’ll yake the CBO over the opinion piece of a leftist PAC
     
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  20. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    You are explicitly taking an opinion piece of a right wing PAC.

    Unless you want to quote where the CBO evaluated tax revenue post inflation in your 7 month old article?
     
  21. Bearack

    Bearack Well-Known Member

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    It's truly hard to use inflation as part of this model as inflation can be an attribute of previous fiscal or monetary policy. We've never monetized our debt from the influx of QE3 and that is what the Fed has begun doing over the last 2 fiscal years since the economy is more robust.
     
  22. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    We are talking about the middle class guy who you claimed had lower refunds.
    Is his withholding lower?
    Is his tax owed lower or higher.

    You do realize that a refund is a function of taxes paid(withholding) minus taxes owed?
     
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  23. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I am sorry. When you said, "is total tax paid down," I assumed that you meant total tax paid. If the only person you want to worry about is the middle class tax-payer, then we have to address a lot of additional factors, like where do they live? In some States, the tax deduction from deducting the money paid to the States has been significantly reduced and now their total tax is higher. In other states, it is lower.

    You can look through this compilation of Trump supporters who saw their tax bill increase.

    https://twitter.com/smarxist_/status/1092342448397922304
     
  24. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Inflation is running about 2%, wage growth hit 3.1% in the 3rd and 4th quarters of 2018, that means wage growth is running 50% higher than inflation.

    [​IMG]

    #Succeed
    Much better after the Republicans took back the Congress and another marked jump last two quarters of 2018 and especially good paying manufacturing jobs. LFPR finally going back up. And let's not forget the lower the unemployment rate the harder it is to create more jobs.

    [​IMG]
    #Succeed
    "The lower tax rates, however, had an impact in the goods-producing sector, with 50 percent of respondents from that sector reporting increased investments at their companies, and 20 percent saying they redirected hiring and investments to the United States from abroad."
    https://nypost.com/2019/01/28/report-says-2018-tax-cuts-didnt-boost-business-spending-hiring/
    That is who it was aimed at, then the service sector jobs follow.
    #Succeed

    The one time 15% credit produced a HUGE jump in the first quarter. For longer term more permanent tax change will be necessary.
    "There was a huge spike in the return of foreign profits to the U.S. during the first quarter of 2018, according to an analysis from the Federal Reserve released Tuesday.

    The tax legislation that went into effect this year requires companies to bring foreign profits back to the U.S., with a tax rate of 15.5 percent on cash and cash-equivalent assets (which do not include live chickens, as it turns out) and 8 percent on profits invested in hard assets such as real estate. This one-time mandatory repatriation of foreign profits provides an enormous discount from the 35 percent tax rate companies faced before the passage of the GOP tax cuts in December."
    http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2018/09/06/US-Companies-Repatriating-Billions-Foreign-Earnings

    #Succeed

    Of geeezzzz. The goal wasn't to increase everyones tax refunds DUH. It was to lower their tax bills AND the withholding amounts through the year so they have more money in their pockets to spend instead of the government sitting on it.

    #Succeed

    If you want to have more money withheld from your paycheck so you get some big refund for it the next year you can do so, it's stupid to do so but you are perfectly free to do so, there is even a place on your form for you W-2 where you can enter the amount of addtional withholding you want. Heck you can have half you paycheck withheld and then you can brag about the HUGE refund you get.



    The Corporate Tax Cut Is Paying for Itself
    Faster-than-expected growth has produced a revenue windfall.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-corporate-tax-cut-is-paying-for-itself-1537310846

    I'm all for cutting the growth of spending and vote for fiscally conservatives to do so, who do you vote for that will cut spending?
     
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  25. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    For the very highest earners, I thought you wanted to increase taxes on the top earners?
     
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