The NRA

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Bush Lawyer, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Which training course teaches how to awaken from a drunken stupor in the middle of the night and recognize friend from foe before pulling the trigger and killing a family member?
     
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  2. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    I can back it up with many facts, but you start right off by saying you won't accept them. Why are you setting such unreasonably high standard for proof?
     
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  3. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    I don't drink. I'll tell you what I told Lenin there: Stop projecting.

    My wife sleeps next to me, my sister in law on the other side of the house. We turn lights on as we move around the house at night to avoid bumping into things, scaring each other, stepping on the dog, slip and falls, and partially to mitigate just the situation you describe.

    I've come out with a pistol in my hand before. Sister in law invited the boyfriend over. I hear my door open at 4 am (which sticks so its loud) and a man's voice. My dog barks. I retrieved my pistol from the head board cabinet next to my head, and a flashlight, removed the safety, thumbed the hammer back, and opened the door. There stood a man I'd never seen, with a duffel bag in hand looking tired. The lights were on, can't turn it on from the door only from the hall so I knew someone had let him in. So I didn't even need to point at him, I knew he was invited. No training course there, just basic common sense.

    As to training courses https://88tactical.com/training-courses-omaha/home-defense-training-courses/
    https://personalhomedefensetraining.com/
    https://www.shootsafelearning.com/courses/homedefense/index.lasso
    https://personalhomedefensetraining.com/courses
    https://www.360tacticaltraining.com/instructors
    https://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/article/five-fundamentals-of-home-defense/
    http://defense-training.com/training-courses/

    You can also get a friend who was in the infantry to give you some basic pointers. Friends who are police too.
     
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  4. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    You're using the very argument I just made against you as if it somehow now proves YOUR point. Wouldn't some good locks, lights and a functioning alarm system be much more effective at protecting your house than a gun? If you're living in a neighborhood where the common response to several sirens going off along with a loud announcement that the police have been called is to keep on trying to break down a strong door then my best advise to you is to move. All the guns in the world aren't really going to help beyond a certain point
     
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  5. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Anecdotes are MEANINGLESS!

    What you are saying is that there is NO training course that deals with actual REALITY!

    Interesting that the only courses that did TRY to deal with REALITY included things like getting out of the house and improving the SECURITY of your house with alarm systems and lights.
     
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  6. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    And what if your guest was standing there with a cane instead of the duffel since he'd been injured a few days before? You probably still wouldn't shoot him but you're coming close.

    What if the guy approaches quietly? Oils the hinges, (as many burglars do) doesn't announce himself, quietly enters your room and shoots you and your wife with your own gun?

    Let me tell you what happens at my house if someone unexpected calls after the alarm is on. When they are 5 feet away additional lights come on and a polite but firm voice tells them not to come closer, then gives them a phone no. to call in an emergency. If they come on anyway all hell breaks loose, with sirens, even more lights and a loud announcement that the police have been called. Also my dog is barking by now. A gun would be quite extraneous to me

    Alexander Ulyanov was Lenin's brother.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  7. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Why do you assume I don't have locks and lights? That is just an absurdly foolish strawman to employ. FFS housing codes require locks and lights man. What's wrong with you? That's below amateurish.
    I don't own the place so I'm not taking the expense of installing an alarm and paying a company. I've got a dog for that.

    More than that though:
    I live in an area where hurricanes have a yearly season. It is routine for the power to go out, in the entire metropolitan area (Houston metro area being larger than some nations and takes a full hour of highway speed, think 75mph or faster, driving to cross from one end to the other) for at least a few days, sometimes as long as two weeks in a year. Alarms? Don't work when the power is out. Streets are also made to flood in an emergency, before the houses do, so even if your house is untouched your neighborhood is blocked off to cop cars and traditional response. The only things moving are jeeps and high clearance 4x4s with periscope exhaust and sealed engine compartments.
    Hurricane outages are THE time for looting stores or houses.

    Additionally: At the NZ shooting in a public place off a main thoroughfare it took 36 minutes iirc for a police response. In my town, to my neighborhood, which is not on a main thoroughfare, its more like 15 minutes for a response at minimum ie that's the shortest response time in the whole town and only because I live a few miles away from the police station.

    My parents live in the same neighborhood. They had an alarm when we were kids. It sometimes went off, summoning aid, when we'd open a window etc when our parents weren't home. It took 30 minutes easy. First the alarm has to be going off for a bit, a minute or two. Then you get a phone call and have to give the safe code. If you can't or don't answer THEN they call the cops and THEN the response time starts.
    If you are under the impression that an alarm blaring stops criminals, or that when they go off they are immediately summoning aid, I don't know how to cure you of that level of naivete.


    The gun is the last resort, before that I've got living in a lower crime area, locks, lights, a dog etc.
    Just like a fire extinguisher is my last resort to stop a kitchen fire, doesn't mean I spill oil all over the ****ing stove and throw water on it.
     
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  8. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    You asked, don't be salty because you got an answer. Additionally: Don't get falling down drunk and you won't have that problem. Its amazing what you can accomplish when you don't act grossly negligent by consuming so much alcohol you fall into a stupor.
    If you're having a problem tapering your usage off to remain responsible I think they have a program for that. There are these Steps you see....

    There are no training courses that show up at your house randomly after you get hammered, no. If that's what you're looking for, you're out of luck.

    Do you not understand what a CYA liability statement sounds like? I'll give you a hint: you've pointed to one.

    No one ever said having locks and lights (which are required by the housing codes of every state in the united states) wasn't a good idea. Where do you people come up with these pathetic strawmen?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  9. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Have home invasions led to the victim being subject to sexual assault and murder?
     
  10. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    If one does not have a contingency plan beyond the exterior of their dwelling being their only defense, then they have no plan whatsoever. Walls can and will be breached, no matter how secure they may be.
     
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  11. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    It is the same standard relied on in a court of law when someone is being tried for a crime, to try and convince the jury that the defendant is guilty of the charges leveled against them.

    Mere supposition is not good enough. Unless there is actual proof, something that can prove conclusively, beyond reasonable doubt, that the NRA did directly facilitate any mass shooting in recent history, then there is nothing on the part of yourself except for blind, seething, all-consuming hatred for those who hold differing political ideologies.

    Find something of significance. Something that would show the NRA enabled any particular individual to legally acquire a firearm, and use said firearm for the express purpose of killing others. Not a specific category of firearms that are not available in certain states, nor some particular type of magazine that holds a certain amount of ammunition. Find something that would show the individual in question would not have decided to go and murder others if they had simply been left to their own devices.
     
  12. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Why would I shoot him, the indications I have are that he was invited. You shoot home invaders, not invited guests there to plow out your sister in law.

    And what if tomorrow my **** turns purple and tastes like rainbow sherbet? Should I open a soft serve restaurant?

    You don't understand: The door sticks. Its not the hinge, its the foundation. The door literally wedges into the frame closed, it makes noise when you open it and no amount of care or oil fixes that. Every exterior door and window in the house does this.


    How is he going to quietly enter my room? The dog barks at nothing ffs, he barks at people something fierce. The bedroom door is locked so he'd have to defeat that entirely quietly and it does not have an external keyhole to pick so I guess this guy is telekinetic? Then, the gun is in the headboard behind my head, he 'd have to get on top of me to reach it AND open the cabinet which has a pressure lock and makes noise (the mechanism for holding itself closed is a magnet, nothing that is exposed or oilable ), remove the firearm from a closed space in the dark and not tap it against anything, move while not waking me, and shoot us both. All without waking either of us or the dog and we're both near insomniac light sleepers.
    ^ Not to say that that couldn't all happen, but it seems fairly implausible. Do you disagree? Not to mention that someone who is that ninja could assassinate me without going through all that trouble by stalking me in the streets or something, and if they've got the skills for that could likely have acquired a firearm through other means.



    I'm sure your neighbors love that **** when passing wildlife like a stray dog or cat sets that **** off at 3 am.
    Not to mention that despite what your alarm is saying, it hasn't phoned the police at all and wouldn't for several minutes. What you have is a false sense of security, like a child that hides under a blanket to defend itself from monsters in the dark not realizing that human monsters don't play by the same rules as other monsters. You have a thin layer of gossamer you think protects you.
     
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  13. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Point out where I ever said that, you will not because I never did.
     
  14. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    If a hurricane or flood comes you are supposed to leave and go to a shelter so that you won't have to be rescued. The flood waters are going to ruin anything anyway and that's what insurance is for. If a big storm comes I have a nice truck and the local shelter is glad to see someone with a 4x6 who volunteers to help.

    Like I said, if you are in an area that is as dangerous as you say you should left already.

    I live quite a distance from anyone else and my porch has a screen enclosure that isn't locked but has proximity lights that come on if anyone enters.

    I think your gun gives you a false sense of security that makes you do things you shouldn't. Staying during a long blackout to guard your stuff is the first thing you seem to think it can defend you during, and it really can't
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  15. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    uhhh wtf are you talking about and why is that quoting me when I didn't write it?
     
  16. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The natural training that teaches people to not get drunk to the point of doing such.
     
  17. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Baloney, one of the first points of gun safety training is teaching someone to know your target and what's beyond.

    That's gun safety 101.

    From there is sim training which is very effective a teaching shoot don't shoot.
     
  18. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Then name the areas of the united states where crime simply does not happen. Show those present which neighborhoods are immune to robberies, murders, home invasions, and a myriad of other criminal offenses that will lead to either death or great bodily harm for the intended victim.
     
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  19. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you understand: We prepare for these floods. They happen every year. The streets and surrounding land is LITERALLY DESIGNED ON PURPOSE to drain a particular way. Just because there is no electricity for a week or so and you need a truck to move doesn't mean I'm abandoning my homestead. I moved to a neighborhood that didn't flood during Hurricane Harvey (the houses didn't flood) for a reason: because I don't like being a refugee in my own hometown. I prepare by setting aside food and water, and fuel and ammunition and batteries and medicine and clothing etc, specifically so I don't HAVE to leave unless the structure itself is lost. Which as stated in my digs since Harvey (which was a flood of the 500 yr flood plain ie if it didn't flood then it would take a biblical level flood to flood those properties. Fun fact: The structures that didn't flood had been built in the last 30 yrs so our building and zoning codes in my town didn't even need to change after harvey) is not likely to occur.

    I'm glad you're a leaver, you don't seem like the sort of person who is able to remain safely.
     
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  20. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oils the hinges, what a joke, 99% of home burglars are far too stupid to even think of that and who would they, most hinges don't make a sound, normally they just pop the lock with a screwdriver and go on in.
     
  21. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Alarms are an annunciator and in some cases will cause an intruder to flee, however sometimes and I have seen this done dozens of times they just rip the siren off the wall and without monitoring the system has just been rendered useless.

    And sometimes the burglar(s) will just grab as much as they can and haul butt knowing the law is not going to arrive quickly, if at all.
     
  22. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Waking up in a drunken stupor and grabbing a gun is a good way to get shot with your own gun.
     
  23. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mandatory evacuations are actually voluntary, when Irma hit there my area was in a mandatory evacuation area, I hunkered down and rode it out.

    During the storm I was reporting wind speeds and rainfall levels back to the EOC, the dispatched at the EOC asked me what shelter was I at and I advised her I was at home, I found out later she advices the EM director that is didn't evacuate and she was concerned about my safety the EM advised he not to worry as I had been through a number of hurricanes one being Wilma which was a CAT5 and understood how to take care of myself.

    Right and maybe evacuate to a shelter that is even weaker then where you left, during Irma the special needs shelter in Clewiston lost their generator and a air conditioner blew off the roof requiring everyone in the shelter to move to another building through an exposed to hurricane winds outdoor hallway.

    No thanks I'll stay at home where I have a 180 MPH structure and lots of generator power.

    Lots of people do, but what are you going to do if you see an armed intruder in the light preparing to enter your home?

    Totally untrue, if one is prepared a gun is just one tool in the toolkit to survival through most anything, including extended blackouts such as the week following Irma where we lived comfortably without commercial power for 8 days.
     
  24. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's pretty much the same here, I have a very well built home that is 5 feet higher than the yard which was under a foot of water during Irma, I have 10 days of generator fuel and a few months of propane I can cut over should I need to.

    Going to a shelter would be a very last resort, they are crowded, a good place to spread disease's, most lack enough generator power to run the AC's, that is if the genset doesn't fail because governments are notorious for properly maintaining anything and worse of all, anyone can enter shelter, no one is running background checks at the door, everyone is let in.

    They are simply not a safe place to be.
     
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  25. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    During Harvey when they finally opened an HEB back up (HEB is crazy fast on disaster response times too. They were shipping in before the rain even started and had extras on the way before the rain even stopped.) they were letting people in in small groups. 50 people in the store at a time, no hoarding etc. There was plenty to go around, its the first world ffs.
    Even so, **** got really tense, really fast. Couple of fist fights near the end of the line, with COPS on hand even, lots of yelling and pushing. I'd already had enough stuff on hand, we were really just going for extra luxuries and things we hadn't thought of, but I decided then and there I wasn't doing that bullshit again.
     
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