The Poverty Of Contemporary Science

Discussion in 'Science' started by impermanence, May 19, 2022.

  1. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    I simply posted to show your claim was false.
     
  2. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    You would have loved Nazi Germany and Stalinist USSR. Under those two regimes, you didn't have to think at all!

    The bottom-line is that the vaccinations weren't "real" vaccinations, the masks did virtually nothing and the purpose of the government was to take ever more power away from individuals.

    The various governments couldn't have done worse if they had thought about this for twenty years before implementation.
     
  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Vaccination for COVID has been proven to be highly effective.

    Yes, masks are not perfect.

    This idea of "power" is just plain ridiculous.

    The government doesn't get ANY more power of any kind by promoting measures to protect the population from this pandemic.

    Your last is an exaggeration. When one thinks of what could have helped against this pandemic one does come up with stuff we could have done better. Mask availability, more thorough vaccination of the population, testing and other requirements for travel, etc.

    We should remember this, because pandemics are going to continue to be a threat to our population. There is no perfect defense against diseases such as the ones we've seen over the last few decades.
     
  4. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    My friend, there's no perfect defense against anything. The best chance you've got is to use your best judgement [as is the case for us all]. All groups are pretty much controlled by the few who use their power to manipulate the rest. If you think the government is going to save you, good luck!
     
  5. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Dude, facts aren't 'intellectual'. They're the imutable realities of the material around us. Nothing to do with us and our 'perceptions'.
     
  6. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Facts are relative to a particular set of criteria at a specific moment in time...Dude.

    For example: What is the color of your shirt in a completely darkened room?
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I hope you are clear on the fact that nobody has claimed there is a "perfect defense".

    Your "use your best judgement" line along with your comments about "government" sounds VERY close to the view that medical science should be ignored.

    The best defense comes from people cooperating in a consistent plan. That cooperation is why we have government.
     
  8. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Seems to me just a lot of arguing about the difference between 'what we think we've discovered' and 'what we havn't discovered yet.' Most of the time we have to operate based on what we think we have discovered (otherwise nothing works), but occassionaly we have to operate based on what we are still hoping to discover in order to discover it, and when we do, sometimes we find that what we had thought we discovered was incorrect.
     
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  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't agree more.

    In the case of science, humans have developed a body of knowledge - the best we have so far. And, work continues to verify, correct and extend what is known.

    Ignoring that constantly improving body of knowledge that we have today is just plain ridiculous.
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The color and other properties of the shirt don't change when the lights go out.
     
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  11. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you're talking about perception. Color is just based on perception. Its names we give to ranges of wavelengths of visible light. Two people seeing different colors doesnt mean the wavelength of the light reflecting off the shirt changed, it means the way their eyes and brain interpret it are different.

    When 'science' (scientists) make conclusions based on subjective perception, its just bad science which is another name for not science.

    'The shirt is red' isnt really a scientific statement. But 'the shirt reflects light in the wavelength of 700 nanometers' isnt a normal way that people talk to eachother because none of us have eyes that precise (or maybe one of us does, technically).
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
  12. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    That's like saying 'you can't feel evolution, but it's happening'. IOW it's completely meaningless.
     
  13. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Well ... yeah. Unless you hold with the Quantum Physics theory of perturbations (the impact of the measurement/observation, on the thing being measured or observed).
     
  14. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    But the thing they're describing HASN'T changed. That's the only thing which matters here.

    How some random mammal feels about it is not even remotely relevant.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    No you don't, and no they won't.

    This is just the same old hackneyed, dumbed down, secular Westerner's take on Buddhism.
     
  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes, one has to be aware of quantum level issues. However, I think shirts are pretty much solidly within the standard model.
     
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  17. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Please explain your reasoning.

    Are you serious? Where exactly does this happen?
     
  18. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you might want to try a little experiment...go into a completely dark room, keep your eyes closed and have several other people join you. In the absence of any appreciable light, you can then go ahead and tell each person what color their shirt is.
     
  19. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    The wavelength of light will change depending on the constituency of the ambient atmosphere [which is different everywhere] and, as well, the clarity of the observers' ocular media [not to mention what might happen [electro-chemically] along the visual pathway].

    Each thing in the universe is unique.
     
  20. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. And your statement is correct. Almost all things that take place are outside of your perception. It's not a matter of meaning.
     
  21. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    Only if you are considering "it" in a particular moment. Otherwise, it [like all things] is in constant flux.
     
  22. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    It's not mine.
     
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    When you say "use your best judgement", how much respect are you suggesting that medical science be given?
     
  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    That's not relevant to any issue you've proposed so far.

    The shirts will reflect the same wavelengths regardless of how much light there is.

    If there is very little light, they won't reflect much. But, that doesn't mean the shirts changed in any way.
     
  25. impermanence

    impermanence Well-Known Member

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    After over forty years of being a physician, not too much anymore. It's like everything else these days, maybe it's true and maybe it isn't.
     

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