The Unknown War

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by EvilAztec, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

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    Not to take anything away from the heroism of the Russian people, but one of the reasons for the large losses they sustained, was the tendency of Russian army generals, competing with each other for greater glory, to send their troops directly into the teeth of German gunfire, similar to medieval warfare or the US Civil War.
     
  2. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

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    That is a very naive and inaccurate view of the Great Patriotic War
     
  3. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    Maybe in the first few months of the war.
     
  4. EvilAztec

    EvilAztec Banned

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    [video=youtube;Wz29aYk6M8Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz29aYk6M8Y[/video]
     
  5. EvilAztec

    EvilAztec Banned

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    Soldiers of wermacht fought worthily not SS .But soldiers of wehrmacht has not a real and explicit goals.
     
  6. EvilAztec

    EvilAztec Banned

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    [video=youtube;I0gopUsvzDc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0gopUsvzDc[/video]
     
  7. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    dont you think that its a bit outdated ?
     
  8. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

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    I used to have numbers on this. If I recall, two thirds of the total Soviet casualties during the war occurred by the end of the battle of Moscow.
     
  9. EvilAztec

    EvilAztec Banned

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    As I know the history not measured by any *****er you have
     
  10. EvilAztec

    EvilAztec Banned

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    [video=youtube;BGqTTOJe1GQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGqTTOJe1GQ[/video]
     
  11. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    you know only the one perspective
     
  12. EvilAztec

    EvilAztec Banned

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    [video=youtube;hTaWchvEVGo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTaWchvEVGo[/video]
     
  13. EvilAztec

    EvilAztec Banned

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    Tank Museum in Kubinka
    [video=youtube;c7jMEz6aLDs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7jMEz6aLDs[/video]
     
  14. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

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    It is not a "VIEW" at all. It is a historical FACT, which if you have a problem with, is not my problem.

    FALSE! This is a fact of history, and one that has been reported to be primarily in the LAST DAYS of the war, when the Russians were close to Berlin, and the Germans were defending it fiercely. It is related to the great wish of each Russian general to be the ONE who would arrive at Berlin first, thereby claiming the glory of being THE conquerer of the Nazis.
     
  15. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

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    The Battle of Berlin

    Soviet killed and wounded - 350,000

    German killed and wounded - 320,000

    An offensive operation against a determined enemy in an urban environment and manage to keep the kill ration below 1 : 1.20. Those are outstanding figures in any war for any army, anywhere.
     
  16. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

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    The part of the unknown war documentary that struck me the most was the incredible heroism of the 19 and 20 year old girls who, when after many Russian pilots had been killed, were recruited from an ROTC type school, and fast-track trained to fly Russian fighter planes. These green rookies went right into combat, against experienced Luftwaffe pilots, and many lost their lives. Many others however, succeeded in shooting down German planes, as well a hitting troop convoys, and artillery and munitions factories, and other ground targets.

    The courage of them was mind-boggling. Just knowing that a hit to your plane meant one thing, that could be described in one word > Death. Yet, they fought and participated to defend against a powerful enemy. Their heroism was really something to see. It was riveting. I've never forgotten it.
     
  17. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    Ever wonder why Stalingrad was so furiously fought over? It had nothing to do with Stalin's name on it. The Soviets evacuated Stalino (in the Donets valley) without a fight.

    Stalingrad is the Vicksburg of the Volga River. If the Germans held Stalingrad, no river traffic went up the Volga above there. Volga river barges were how the Soviets moved oil and refined product from Baku on the Caspian to the Soviet industrial heartland. In 1941, the rail link between Uralsk (the head of navigation of the Ural river) and the industrial/refinery centers in and around Samara was still under construction. If Stalingrad passes into German hands, the USSR dies from lack of energy. No fuel for tanks. No petrochemicals for explosives. Done. Game over.

    The Germans screwed up by driving into the Caucasus. They should have gone defensive along the Don River between Rostov-on-Don and Kalah-na-Donu/Stalingrad, and sent the panzers due east from Voronezh to Saratov. If they can cut the river between Saratov and Stalingrad, Stalingrad is isolated. An offensive from Voronezh to Saratov was far more logistically doable than conquering and holding all of the Caucasus in 1942. Voronezh to Saratov is perfect panzer country, and there is a rail line for supplies running that way.

    Look on a railway map. Even today, there are no rail lines through the swamps on the left bank of the Volga between Saratov and Stalingrad. If just one battery of Wehrmacht 150mm guns survives, river barges cannot pass. No boats = no supply to Stalingrad. No supply means German victory.

    The Great Patriotic War - as the Russians call it - was a damn close-run thing.
     
  18. EvilAztec

    EvilAztec Banned

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    [video=youtube;-lP70jPAqRs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lP70jPAqRs[/video]
     
  19. EvilAztec

    EvilAztec Banned

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    Look whose talking on ! bro,i glad that you do not loose ability to read
     
  20. EvilAztec

    EvilAztec Banned

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    [video=youtube;rr8rjY-ve3k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr8rjY-ve3k[/video]
     
  21. EvilAztec

    EvilAztec Banned

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    [video=youtube;Ydp7MvGKKl0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydp7MvGKKl0[/video]
     
  22. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    Nice rigging and recovery work? Did they find any human remains?

    Wonder how that tank got into that swamp? T-34c was a good soft ground vehicle but not enough to let you drive it that deep in a swamp. Did the crew drive out on ice and it broken and the tank sunk into the ooze?

    Interesting that the tracks and axles still worked after sixty years in the mud.

    Didn't the Byelorussians just recently find a PzKw IV in the bottom of a river?
     
  23. EvilAztec

    EvilAztec Banned

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    [video=youtube;172DDaRjmAk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=172DDaRjmAk[/video]
     
  24. KGB agent

    KGB agent Well-Known Member

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    Swamp is a low-oxygen environment. No wonder tanks and self-propelled guns, which have sinked into the swamp, are in a good shape. I won't be surprised if this T-34 or Stug-40 on p.4. would be able to run on their own, if someone disassembles, cleans and re-assembles their engine and transmition.
     
  25. EvilAztec

    EvilAztec Banned

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    [video=youtube;vd6ngRVovaI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd6ngRVovaI[/video]
     

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