Considering the treatment of the Ukraine by the USSR over the years, I don't know if "liberation" is the word I'd use. Trading one oppressor for another is more like it. You see, I know about the Great Patriotic War, but also the suppression of the kulaks, the Holodomor, and the Red Terrors. Stalin's communist regime had zero moral superiority over Hitler's Third Reich. Yeah, the Eastern Front in World War II might, by itself may have been the biggest and certainly bloodiest war of all time, but don't kid us it was about "liberation."
I saw an interview with a Russian war vet, he quipped that he an many saw it as a simple choice. "Support a dictator who spoke Russian or one that didn't" To the wider point, the Russian people were not all that concerned about the initial German invasion. Enemies come enemies go, they began to realize the situation as displaced refugees began filtering into places like Moscow, and told stories of the treatment by the Germans. It was then the Soviet people realized this was not a war of territory, but the very existence of the Russian people was at stake. They reacted accordingly
Given Stalin's propensity for killing soviet citizens, it would seem that the truth finds little difference between Hitler and Stalin. Solzenetsyn credited Stalin with killing 66 million Soviet citizens between 1937 and 1953. Only in Hitler's wildest dreams could he kill a quarter of that. If Hitler had had the sense to tell the difference between Ukrainians and Russians he could have made good a lot of his manpower losses.
It was only unknown to the uneducated. I knew of this and much of what happened on the Eastern front whilst I was in high school. Several documentaries and lots of fictional films have been made about these events.
The Liberation of Belorussia [video=youtube;4ftAQtTAHPM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ftAQtTAHPM[/video]
Solzenetsyn was a fantasy writer .In nowdays in Russia if ask somebody who was Solzenetsyn ? You hear the answer " Solzenetsyn was some strange and a little bit crazy man" . Solzenetsyn could write 100 million and what ? Nothing .
Solzenetsyn could write of millions of soviets killed by Stalin and it rings true. Stalin himself once famously said something along the lines of: "One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic." When it came to mass murder, Hitler was a talented amateur but Stalin was a pro. Apologies for Stalin are a major source of friction between Americans and Russians.
No, it is not. Prison camp's nark couldn't possibly have any info about it. Just a fary tale for brainless westerners he can succesfully sell during the Cold War. Surprisingly, there are a lot of people bying and beliving this dellirium till now. Says it all about their general development level. He did, except he didn't. The quote originally belongs to Remarque. That pesky tyrant! There is no friction between Americans and Russians on the matter. However, there are frictions between self-righteous anti-commie historical amateurs and those who do have some knowlege on the subject.
Well, since you've been reading about this since before I was born, maybe I should pay some attention to what you have to say
Force is the central tenet of Communism. As practiced by Stalin, it is indistinguishable from Hitler's Naziism.
Your post-modern US is much more worse than USSR in 80's of last century .You have no freedom of movement because all your move is under control of your goverment. Your penitentiary system and judicial system is a crap .
"Your post-modern US is much more worse than USSR in 80's of last century." Taxcutter says: Thev US doesn't quite have anything like the KGB or the Gulag...yet. Yes, Hussein Obama, the IRS, the EPA, and the Park Service are trying, but they haven't caught up just yet.
Try CIA. Try Guantanamo or one of those CIA secret prisons. Or Mr.President droning you. Or NSA. Looks like teh "bastion of freedom" is screwed. Hehe.
Has the CIA set up machine gun positions behind US troops to keep them from retreating? Hussein Obama is trying but he has a long way to go to catch Stalin. You foul up a good thread on the war that not many know about with old Soviet propaganda. The Soviets do have much to be proud of from that war - particularly their excellence in tank warfare, but "liberation" of the Ukraine ain't gonna fly.
The Liberation of Poland [video=youtube;yq7bQ_a1tO4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq7bQ_a1tO4[/video]
The comparing Stalin and Obama is incorrect .Stalin was and is a historical person like Cherchil . Your Obama looks like as a stupid lilliputian.
You tell me. KGB(NKVD at a time), for one, hadn't. Back to school, come back when you finish your history classes. But, of course, if your historical "knowlege" is based on Hollywood B-movies...well...you should stick to breeding cows or what else you cowboys do. And I thought it was you to fill it with old anti-Soviet propaganda. Back to school, silly one. Ukraine was part of USSR since day one. How else do you call liberation of your own territory excepth..ughh...liberation?
"Ukraine was part of USSR since day one." Taxcutter says: Not quite day one. They were sorta independent in 1918 but the Ukrainians hitched their wagon to the Anarchists and the better-organized Bolsheviks conquered them...then starved them. If Hitler had had enough sense to come in out of the rain he could have recruited a couple million Ukrainians to fight against Stalin. But Hitler was a fool.
Taxcutter is wrong. As usual. USSR In 1922, the Bolsheviks were victorious, forming the Soviet Union with the unification of the Russian, Transcaucasian, Ukrainian, and Byelorussian republics. Ukraine was part of the USSR since the day it was borned - 30th December 1922.
As you have never been here in Russia . I know you proud your country it is very normally . But this thread not about your patriotic feelings.
What makes you think I never visited the former Soviet Union? Never encountered the travel restrictions for those behind the Iron Curtain? I don't know what modern Russia is like- all second hand. But the former Soviet Union- the former Soviet Block Countries? Yes- I did. Here is how terribly regulated things are in the United States for travel- when I want to fly somewhere, I buy a ticket. If I want to drive anywhere in the U.S.- I just drive there. If I want to drive outside the U.S.- I just drive my car across the border to Mexico or Canada- no restrictions. That was not the case in the former Soviet Union, or the Soviet block countries. We have never needed internal visa's to travel from one city to another. We have never needed elaborate and restrictive permissions in order to be able to depart the United States. The United States is far from perfect, as I would imagine is the case of Mother Russia. But compared to the former Soviet Union that I encountered, the United States is and was a very free society.
Your mother Russia is bad then the United States so may be you point why you leave Russia? The USA is far perfect in what?
