The USA is divided and there is no easy way out

I don't see a "break up" of the US being good for anybody involved. I do see a need for peaceful revolt by the states to limit the role of the federal government. Any federal function not specifically spelled out in the Constitution needs to be ended and those responsibilities need to go to the states or as local as possible.(per the 10th Amendment) States need to handle education, individual welfare, gun laws, crime, etc...... The feds need to handle international trade and negotiations, border security, national defense, and national infrastructure for the general welfare. This will require a balanced budget amendment and a limit on taxes. I would also push to repeal the 17th Amendment to give states more control of the feds and put in Congressional term limits. The feds won't give up this power without a broad support of the states. People can choose what kind of government they want to live under and support. An authoritarian federal government only leads to strife and division in efforts to control that government.

50 states doing things differently tends to weed out the bad ideas quickly. If a state wants to coddle the poor and illegals, they can pay for it. If a state wants to ignore the poor and illegals, they can deal with the homelessness and crime. The same goes for gun laws, abortion, or any other blue/red type issue.

 

For the USA to remain a single nation requires one of the 2 sides to accept defeat, or be defeated.

 

No, what's needed is compromises. The "my way or the highway" mentality has to be replaced with mediation and acceptance of the other side point of view. The right want thougher immigration policies and strong military, then compromise by giving the other side their healthcare and education reforms for example. Digging trenches and asking for unconditional surrender on everything will be the death of your civilisation.

 

Not if states can individually deal with the stank of their own policies.

 

I thing the something 'big', this time, will be very subtle. It already is...

 

I agree. Seeing the other party folk as 'enemies' can be disastrous. But I honestly don't see how it can be brought about at present...short of another national disaster that sees the country coming together as one.

 

Trust that the people who genuinely respect the nation and all it's gifts, will not allow it to be destroyed.
The oath that so many of us have taken- to defend the nation and constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic- will be honored by those people.
Those people have been tolerant, as that is the nature of America- but there is a limit, and those who violate it are not anonymous.
I think we will see tolerance being replaced by actions, by necessity. Not violent actions, but social constraints- such as not allowing the disruptive and confrontational people any venue to reach into the territory of rational people who regulate their own conduct. Not giving their argument any semblance of reason, by simply identifying it as dysfunctional and irrational in the first place. Employment will become selective, as it should be. No company wants anyone on the team that is going to disrupt the function, contaminate the atmosphere with political argument, promote the idea that the very people who are their customers, paying for their services, are the enemy.

These people think like spoiled children, whose parents should have taken them to the woodshed for some education in character long ago. That makes them loud, obnoxious, abusive and unscrupulous- but not particularly smart.

The system is in place. It has never been flawless- but it is in place. From time to time, it needs to be defended, and there are plenty of people prepared to do that.

 

No you are not naive and I have respect for you and your opinions. Great thread and insight.

 

Thanks for the kind words.

 

Or a realistic third political party that brings a more middle of the road position. I never understood why any country would limit itself in any way to only two political parties as if there was only two political viewpoint in society.

 

Most Americans are too fat to fight a war, so we’ll just have to get along.

 

Wrong, and a complete misunderstanding of the problem. There is no ground for compromise. Its not about individual issues such as health care and immigration, those are just symptoms.

"progressives" want all power to reside in a socialist/communist federal government. Everyone else thinks the federal govt is already too big and powerful and needs to be reduced, power needs to be returned to the states, essentially a return to the original Constitutional principles.

There is no room for compromise there.

 

Very well put. It explains the sheer unadulterated hatred for Trump. But I don't think it will abate unless the left/Democrats/progressive are somehow roundly defeated (and I don't know how.) They actually smelled real total victory from the Obama administration, and that is a taste that is nigh on impossible to compromise away. Right when they thought they were going to run the table, in walked this person from no-man's land and sunk all the solids and the 8-ball in one turn. For a while all they could do was foam at the mouth.

 

Can’t you just picture a bunch of spoiled American fat asses trying to have a civil war?

Lol ...

God knows ... They’re not going to run anywhere, carry anything, or dig a foxhole.

After all ... What if “America’s Got Talent” is on at the same time as the civil war?

 

Global warming is causing

I have many conservative family and friends. Sure, it is a little more tense since Trump got into office, but we still can talk and have a good time. We just avoid talking politics. See, politics is not the end all of human existence.

And no, we are not in a civil war. If you are seeing warfare everywhere, maybe that say more about you than our society.

 

A civil war might work is it was made into a reality TV show.

 

Its interesting but not unexpected that many "progressives" don't see the deep problems with the current situation. That's because things have been going their way for a long time, and the only real problem they see (as you demonstrate in your post) is Trump, and they see that as a temporary setback.

This is a civil war, and it has been for a long time, long before Trump. Its obvious just from an examination of the practices of the obama administration, and from the comments from the DemocRat party leaders.

 

In theory, I agree. I think the only way to heal the divide is to accept the nation as the founders designed, a federation of different states with each state having a large leeway to govern itself. Most of our problems between the two tribes that are fighting over America is that issues that used to be local ones are now nationalized, so there is no room to live and let live. Abortion is the best example. Prior to 1973, it was a state by state issue and didn't make even a blip as a national political issue. However after Roe v Wade, it became a national issue in which one side would win and one side would lose. No other options.

Unfortunately, I've not found a single leftist who would accept returning to the status quo ante of local issues being decided on the local level. They want everything decided and imposed from the top down, their way. No compromise ever. That's why the Supreme Court has become so continuous. The left has turned us from a Republic to a Judicial Oligarchy, so control of the court means control of the country.

Well it's going to be the right that loses. Historically, that would be my bet.

 

Then you'll keep on failing... You should read the Jean de la Fontaine fable "Le chêne et le roseau". By refusing to bend you'll break.

 

It seems that you believe that the only way to get rid of the people you disagree with is a "civil war". Interesting. Tell me, do you believe that violence is the only way to rid the country of progressives? I mean, out of the last 6 presidents, four have been Republicans and currently Trump, both houses of congress and 33 state governors are all Republicans. Yet somehow it is going to take a civil war to get the country back to conservatism? That makes the conservatives sound a little inept.

I think the real issue is that society is always changing and this alarms a lot of conservatives as they think it is some kind of liberal plot to take over the world, but in reality, it is just how the world works. The only constant in the universe is change.

 

I agree - but each side is so entrenched they won't move toward a third option.

 

Probably correct, although the USA is an exception for a few reasons.

Historically, the govt trends totalitarian and - if the population is not already disarmed - disarms the population before the last push to seize all power. That final seizure often involves violence in the form of rounding up or displacing current and future dissidents. The USA population is not disarmed and may never be, which means that final step will be resisted.

And related to arms, the USA is full of people with combat experience and theoretical and practical training and experience in insurgency and counter insurgency. That does not bode well for the tyrants.

Also, the USA population is aware of the problem so it has advance warning. The Right certainly is aware, but even some on the Left got a wake up call when Trump was elected and suddenly they had to think in terms of being the victim of what they thought of as a tyrannical govt.

In any case, the Right may lose but it will be a very nasty fight. My view is that if it comes down to open violence, if the right does not win quickly the cost will be so high the nation will be ruined.

 

You understand that the "right wing" is sanctioning Russia AND fighting against their agenda in Syria, right?

Please acknowledge that you have this understanding...

 

You make a fatal mistake. You assume only one side must compromise. It takes 2 sides to compromise. It also takes common ground so the compromise is acceptable to both parties. Neither side is willing to compromise, and there is no common ground.

 

Awfully puny civil war..