The USA is divided and there is no easy way out

I think it's three groups. Those on the extreme right, on the extreme left and those in the middle. The center, center left and right or what I call middle America. This last group, I suppose political wise could be called independents which has grown from 30% in 2006 to 43% today as more and more are deserting the two major parties.

Yes, the far left and far right has taken over both major political parties. There are no moderates left in either. The problem is in our two party system even with both major parties shrinking they still control the whole process. It doesn't matter that the Democrats now make up only 28% of the total electorate while the Republicans make up 26%. They choose the candidates which 100% of us much choose from. We get a Trump vs. Clinton match up where approximately 60% didn't want Trump as their next president and another 60% didn't want Clinton. Included is the 25% who didn't want neither one to make up the 60%.

Our election process is controlled by the hard liners, the hard core of each party. It will only get worse as the two major parties continue to shrink and the hard liners total control of them continue to give us candidates like Attila the Hun to most of us. But we have little choice but to choose which Attila we want.

 

No it wouldn't, because the ocean is big enough that every life raft can be an island with no neighbors in sight. By getting rid of the Union you will not get rid of neighbors, some of whom will feel entitled to your stuff.

No, my position is that of Franklin, who observed that if good people don't hang together, they'll hang separately.

To the extent that's true, it's only possible because of the Union you want to dissolve.

Anyone who thinks the far right has taken over the GOP has his head where the sun don't shine.

That would mean the GOP is dominated by leftists. So on that one you're pretty close.

 

Are you claiming that debate does not impact you? You know everything and cannot learn anything from anybody? Even completely false propaganda has value in identifying motives and the people involved.

 

It depends upon how you measure "the middle". Many conservatives are registered as "no party affiliation" or "independent" even though they are very conservative. These people left the R party out of disgust. In open primary states they can vote in the R primary, in other states many register for the election and then go back to independent, and some just don't vote in the R primaries.

And there is a growing group who have simply dropped out of the election process altogether. Its probably a small group, but its also unknown.

 

What does influence you? The vast majority of the information you have about the world is mediated by someone else, someone who has the money and power to select what information you receive and what information is withheld.

 

Oh I do learn but not from social media or forums like this one. They're as fake as "reality" tv...

 

I would think this puts you a million miles right of right.

 

But you've a brain to filter it. Don't rely on someone else opinion even if the have big titles attached to their name. Look at the raw data and come to your own conclusion.

 

Since 1972 we have had a low of 49.1% turnout for presidential elections in 1996 to a high of 56.8% in 2008. 55.5% turned out in 2016, a bit above average which surprised me as I expected more to stay home since the dislike of both presidential candidates was so high.

Primaries aren't a very good way to measure. If one has an exciting primary with good candidates, a lot of folks will turn out. A dull primary season, not many.

You're correct about one thing, independents can be broken down into those who lean right, those who lean left and pure independents with no leans. The latter probably makes up no more than 20% of all independents with the rest leaning one way or the other.

 

proof please

 

IS that why youre still crying cause Trump wont the election?

 

Conservatives admire traditional American values. They don’t seek change. We like the Founding Fathers and what they created.

It’s people like Obama who want to “fundamentally change” the U.S. That’s what being a lib is all about ... trashing the existing society and creating something new.

 

Yeah, traditional things like:


social security/income equalization = Thomas Paine

no standing army = Jefferson

free education = Jefferson

infrastructure building = Washington & Hamilton

separation of church and state = Madison



You agree with all of these, right?

 

I always rely on someone else's opinion except in the areas I am expert. I try to find persons with good track records and listen to them.

Ninety-nine percent of the time I lack the expertise and leisure to form my own opinions from "raw data." If that is what you are doing, well, it shows.

 

Following the tyranny of George III, the founders were suspicious of large, overbearing government. They wanted government kept as small as possible. But what do we have today? We have a bloated, uncontrollable leviathan that doesn't give a damn about the people. Like a cancer, it only cares about its own feeding, growth, and survival.

 

Presumably it does, by some definition of the term that's a million miles away from reality.

 

Without exerting the effort. No "pioneers" among them. Suggest they go help "sort out" a broken socialist utopia ...

 

Right. If they want socialism, let them establish their own commune. Don’t drag us into it.

 

Sheep leading sheep ... and not by example. Todays liberals can't forge nations.

 

It’s called”California “.

 

That is pure nonsense. Also, it is purely theoretical. Trump supporters usually deal in the theoretical because reality is unpleasant and should be avoided at all cost. Here is why. This is reality.

The Trump administration is a rat's nest of controversies, and that has been true from the very beginning when Spicer entered the press room to say that the crowd at Trump's coronation was historic and tore into any reporter who said otherwise.

Underlying the entire administration is the lingering righteous allegation that Trump's campaign team collaborated with the Russians to defeat Clinton. It is Trump's proverbial "witch hunt," and it drives him batty.

Then we can move on to the Access Hollywood tapes that prove our President is a pervert.

A few years before that Trump had an affair with a Playboy bunny and a porn star within months of Melania giving birth to their son, Barron, proving our President to be totally amoral. During the election campaign, Trump had his personal lawyer pay off the porn star and Playboy bunny to keep their mouths shut.

In December 2016 Trump's senior advisor made a deal with the Russians. Trump was not President at the time. Mike Flynn lied about it and he was fired from his post as Trump's NSA in February 2017.

More recently, Trump's former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, was found guilty of eight felony counts and he faces jail time.

Rick Gates, Trump's deputy campaign manager has pleaded guilty to several felonies.

Trump's foreign policy advisor, George Papadopulous, pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI.

Trump's personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, has pleaded guilty to eight felony counts and named Trump as an un-indicted co-conspirator to hide essential facts from the voter during the 2016 election.

Flynn, Manafort, Gates, Papadopulous, and Cohen have all flipped on Trump and have been working with the "witch hunt's" special prosecutor, Robert Mueller.

Most damaging of all in terms of the alleged collaboration with the Russian government is the fact that high level Trump campaign advisors met with representatives of the Russian government in June 2016. Trump's son, Trump's son-in-law, and Trump's campaign manager met with four representatives of the Russian government at Trump's home, Trump Tower. Trump says he didn't know a thing about it.

Trump's foreign policy -- climate change, the Jerusalem decision, the destruction of the Iranian nuclear agreement, complete failure with trade deals, his trade wars -- is a series of debacles.

Trump gave a speech at the U.N. General Assembly today, and he must have thought he was at one of his political rallies in Alabama in front of his adoring admirers. He bragged about his exploits as President -- in reality, lack thereof -- and they laughed at him.

That is our President. Trump's cult stays with him. No one knows why, including the cult itself. The cult largely ignores Trump and they tell us how nasty the Democrats and liberals are, including Obama and Hillary. They love talking about Obama and Hillary or anyone who votes against Kavanaugh.

But talking about Trump and reality is taboo. The theoretical is permissible.

 

When you wrote this:
"Trump supporters usually deal in the theoretical because reality is unpleasant and should be avoided at all cost."
you showed you were totally biased and ignorant.

You wasted your time posting your drivel.

 

Hey, I thought you were sticking with reality, not kooky conspiracy theory?

 

It's the Dems who are tearing the country apart, trying to "fundamentally change" America.

 

You just proved you could not deal with reality. You did not question a single statement involving the Trump administration. You can't explain the "drivel" part. Like most Trump fans, you think just saying it makes it true.

On the other hand, I substantiate what I say. I showed that Trump fans avoid reality "because reality is unpleasant and should be avoided at all cost." Then you proceeded to prove my statement.

Thank you for your cooperation.