Theists - How can you believe? Seriously ...

I didn't say this proves the miracles, I posted it because someone on your side archaeology disproves the Bible or something to that effect.

I would like to ask you how did the Bible predict Cyrus 150 years before he lived?

http://www.gotquestions.org/Cyrus-Bible.html

 

I have never disputed the time and place in which the bible was written. That would be nutty. I disregard 'archaeology proves the bible', a) because it's very bad English. and b) because it proves nothing other than a setting, and settings are an essential part of narrative. in other words, why would it even be noteworthy? it's like saying "look, my book has pages!"

I hazard the guess that the bible did not 'predict' anything. Any elements of the stories which APPEAR to resemble something which later came to pass is probably a combination of chance, imagination, and good guess work. If you believe Cyrus was actually predicted, then perhaps you also believe that all those whacky machines the early Sci Fi writers dreamed up, and which now exist in more or less the same form as those early dreamings, were actually supernatural predictions.

 

And what precisely does the sky, the sun, the earth, light, and warmth have to do with 'truth'?

 

What does it really matter what they believe?

Why don't you just let them be and mind your own business.

 

Tkolter.........… I would like to invite you over to one of the discussions that I began a while ago:

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=354772&page=6&p=1064234825#post1064234825
If we invent super intelligent androids... how could we test them?



Might we perhaps invent some sort of virtual reality holographic environment where the attitude and character of an android can be tested to see if they will behave in a manner that is altruistic and humble?

The analogy to Adam, Eve, Lucifer and his angels should be obvious!

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(page 6)....

True........... my hope that many of the apocalyptic visions for the future of mankind can be fulfilled metaphorically rather than literally does seem rather naïve?!?!

The Being of Light who does a "Life Review" with people who have a brush with death can only be one of two beings. As a Christian this is either Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in his glorified form serving as "King of all kings and Lord of all lords" or this would have to be Lucifer and/or perhaps Azazel impersonating Him?????!!!!

"And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." (II Corinthians 11:14)

I personally am convinced that The Being of Light is the Word/ Logos, the member of the Elohim who breathed life into Adam and Eve........ but of course I could be wrong.

On the plus side....... if the Being of Light is Satan impersonating the Word/ Logos...… then the caliber of what this being is teaching............. is so impressive that it is no wonder that a third of the angels would have followed him????!!!

Near death experience accounts can unite humanity....... and the people who are convinced that the being of light is none other than Satan......… should be able to understand why people like me are convinced that the being of light is identified in Baruch 6:6 of The Catholic Bible.

"[6] For my angel is with you: And I myself will demand an account of your souls."

http://www.near-death.com/storm.html#a04

"They explained to me that their concern was for all the people of the world. They weren't interested in one group getting ahead of other groups. They want every person to consider every other person greater than their own flesh. They want everyone to love everyone else, completely; more, even, than they love themselves. If someone, someplace else in the world hurts, than we should hurt we should feel their pain. And we should help them. Our planet has evolved to the point, for the first time in our history, that we have the power to do that. We are globally linked. And we could become one people." (Howard Storm)

 

They objectively exist, can be seen and felt. Therefore, the objective truth is they are real.

 

Well, what about the subjective 'truth'? You see, your analysis is one of subjectivity.. not objectivity.

 

By your own admission, man created the car. If you feel that it must be so, who or what made the man?

 

What subjective truth? The sun is out there giving us light and warmth, or it isn't. I objectively know the truth. It is there.

 

It's fun to think about some kind of universal intelligence of which we are some part or aspect, isn't it? I was impressed by these words from Carl Sagan in Cosmos: "We are a way for the universe to know itself." That is, each of us is a thinking, environmentally aware part of the universe (or of "God," if one prefers). My own thinking here brings me to the notion of consciousness being something universal in a way, a part of the universe. As such, there might be something to be said for reincarnation, though not in the simple way of a "spirit" being reborn in another body, because I still see no distinction between mind and body, apart from how we tend to perceive ourselves. The mind is a product of the brain/nervous system and that's that.. But still, we are all a part of the greater universe that surrounds us, and so we could all be 'linked' in a way that is not immediately apparent to us, and there could be something greater of which the individual consciousness and intellect of each of us is a part.

And so, despite each of us being a unique being with a unique mind, we still might share some fundamental element of consciousness that is born time and again in each and every thinking creature. That doesn't promise any sort of afterlife, but it speaks to infinity and our place in a greater cosmic order.

 

If we all minded our own business the forums would be very quiet. What does a debate between two people who are minding their business look like anyway?

 

The so-called 'truth' that you perceive in the subjectivity of your mind.

 

evolution, of course. and he wasn't 'made', he adapted.

I have not the slightest need or interest in knowing how the universe started, incidentally. to me, that's like being given a palace on a thousand acres of beautiful gardens, but choosing to spend one's time there staring at a single brick.

 

Isaiah lived 150 years before Cyrus. Even Josephus discusses this.

From an article by Wayne Jackson:

"Finally, as an interesting sidelight, we note that Josephus, the Jewish historian, stated that the Jews in Babylonian captivity showed Cyrus the prophecies of the Old Testament Scriptures which contain his name and described his role in the scheme of God. The historian says that it was this circumstance that motivated the ruler “to fulfill what was written” (Antiquities of the Jews 11.1.2), and thus to issue his edict permitting Israel’s return to her homeland."

 

see: supernatural predictions made by sci fi writers.

 

Because no-one could get a cult going if there wasn't a big pay-off. Cults get people in with promises. The promise of eternal life is a biggie. A cult can get to become a religion if it promises eternal life. I don't fancy the chances of any cult if they don't promise eternal life.

 

This just shows your closed mindedness, not even a respected historian vouching for the prediction moves you. What would it take for you to believe that prediction was genuine?

- - - Updated - - -

The idea of eternal life now and throughout history is pretty universally widespread throughout history, save for a few atheists.

 

The idea has been around for as long as humans have had sentience and an awareness of mortality. Unfortunately for us it looks to be a big crock. But hope springs eternal as they say and any religion that doesn't offer eternal life is not going to get off the ground from its cult beginnings.

 

And you know that how?

 

Is popular opinion proof of an afterlife?

 

No, it just means the concept is far from unusual, is worldwide and is as old as man. Which you would expect if the idea of God, etc. is planted in the human heart as the Bible says.

Do you believe in an afterlife?

 

So no need to worship and follow just the god of abraham, since everyone gets eternal life anyway.

 

I have seen no empirical proof of it, but death comes to us all so I guess I will find out sooner or later... hopefully waaay later.

 

you would also expect it if clever, sentient beings understood that death was an end to life, and were afraid of it. duh.

 

my mind is completely open, as it happens. I await empirical evidence of genuine, very specific and concrete predictions coming to pass. what it would take for me to believe predictions had actually happened? empirical evidence that genuine, very specific and concrete predictions can come to pass. since we currently have precisely NONE of this evidence, what possible reason would I have to believe such a thing ... other than as a salve to some emotional need?