There is something I'm not understanding about the right wing Afghanistan narrative...

<delete due to being redundant>

 

I didn't make any claims about what you said.
I posted your direct quotes. Intellectual Dishonesty

 

False.

 

JUST WOW

 

"It wasn't a good deal" is an understatement. It was an unconditional surrender.

 

So you figured out that Trumps agreement ended the war in Afghanistan. Good for you
Baby steps

 

Trump's agreement with the Taliban got them the ability to stiff the Afghan government in further power sharing negotiations (a condition of our withdrawal made by Trump he ignored) thus completely taking power........
Nov. 17, 2020 — Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller formally announces that the U.S. will reduce U.S. forces in Afghanistan to 2,500 by Jan. 15, 2021. On the same day, the Defense Department IG’s office released a report for the quarter ending Sept. 30, 2020, that said the peace negotiations between the Afghan government and Taliban representatives had stalled and violence increased. “At the same time, the Taliban increased its attacks against Afghan forces, leading to ‘distressingly high’ levels of violence that could threaten the peace agreement,” the report said.

...........the ability to keep attacking Afghan forces...........May 19, 2020 — In releasing its quarterly report on Afghanistan, the DOD inspector general’s office says the U.S. cut troop levels in Afghanistan by more than 4,000, even though “the Taliban escalated violence further after signing the agreement.”..........the ability to get 5,000 fighters back (over the objections of Afghan prez Ghani), and the ability to bring al-Qaeda terrorists in to the Taliban's leadership.
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeline-of-u-s-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/

 

Your word salad changes nothing I posted

That 5000 prisoner release got us
No American soldier casualties since February 2020
No road side bombs
1000 Afghanistan military personnel released
13,000 troops sent home since the cease fire agreement
3 US military bases evacuated without Taliban intervention
Basically, and end to the war.

Anyone who thought the Taliban wasn't going to take over Afghanistan isn't in touch with reality. Our mission was to get out without going to war.
No American soldier was killed or attacked for 18 months after signing Trumps agreement.

The Taliban told Biden if he didn't honor the agreement they would step up their aggression. Biden ignored them and on May 1st, the Taliban started their seizure of Afghanistan.
Biden wanted a 20th anniversary 9/11 photo op and refused to leave until the Taliban took over Kabul. So dementia Biden ordered the evacuation under occupation, leaving Americans behind and went on vacation for 4 days.

 

This is a causation/correlation fallacy.

You have correlation in time. But, you have NO EVIDENCE of causation.

So, you CLAIM causation, but I gave you other very reasonable and fully factual causation candidates.

 

Golem, I am late to the discussion, but in know way did I not think the Taliban had a chance to take over Afg. What I did not believe is that America would not take with them 16,000 pairs of night vision goggles, or other arms. I did not believe we would leave behind ANY Americans or supporters of this country. I did not believe we would leave anything we built intact in our retreat!

 

Same thing. It's the same mistake to expect the invading army that loses a war to be able to retreat without any hitches. As I said, all Americans who WANTED to leave, left. Any left did not want to leave when they were asked to. When the U.S. Embassy offered to pay for their commercial flights. Or to at least register, so they knew where to extract them from. I don't know each individual case. Maybe some of them didn't hear the message from the Embassy. But they certainly must have heard it from the fact that the Taliban were very quickly taking over. Nothing anybody could do if they were so isolated they didn't see it coming. Even if we had stayed there another 20 years, that would not have helped those in that or other scenarios.

As for the Afghan supporters.... I agree that's a tragedy! We had 20 years to prepare for withdrawal. We had to do it in less than 8 months, because absolutely NOTHING was done in all those years.

 

You mean like the signed agreement between Trump and the Taliban that explicitly spells out
5000 Taliban prisoner release and in return
Agreement not to kill American soldiers which was upheld since February 2020
Agreement not to place road side bombs which was upheld since February 2020
Agreement to release1000 Afghanistan military personnel released
13,000 troops sent home since the cease fire agreement
3 US military bases evacuated without Taliban intervention
Basically, and end to the war.
https://www.state.gov/wp-content/up...or-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf

Yes, you pretended the agreement doesn't exist because it doesn't fit your agenda and decided to make up your own causation candidates.
We know[/QUOTE]

 

No need to remind us Trump strengthened the Taliban's numbers while cutting the Afghan president out of the negotiations over the release of those 5,000 fighters. No amount of obfuscation changes those facts, much to the dismay of former Trump officials. Bolton, McMaster, Miller, Esper, Curtis, and Haley have all rightly criticized the deal retrospectively as a reflection of Generalissimo Trump's desire to withdraw at any cost.

 

FALSE.

 

Since the Taliban took over Afghanistan with its 75,000 fighters without a shot fired, where those 5000 made no difference, you would prefer to have the Taliban attack and kill American soldiers for the last 18 months without a cease fire.
You can't have it both ways.

 

So now you didn't say this?

 

I stand by what I said.

 

This is a false dichotomy fallacy. You have no evidence that these were the only options.

And, it is based on your correlation/causation fallacy.

 

Just a reminder.

Chairman Xi Talibiden "prepared for every constituency".

 

I have the actual historical signed document and its provisions spelled out
I have the actual historical fact that we agreed to release 5000 Taliban soldiers for the following provisions
I have the actual historical fact that no American soldier was attacked or killed as per the agreement
I have the actual historical fact that 13,000 troops came home as per the agreement
I have the actual historical fact that 1000 Afghan military service members were release as per the agreement
I have the actual historical fact that 3 US military bases were evacuated without Taliban interference as per the agreement
I have the actual historical fact that those 5000 released Taliban fighters made no difference to the end result
What do you have?

False dichotomy fallacy and correlation/causation fallacy wordsmithing from a guy who can't even agree on what he posted himself.

 

Let's remember that written agreements do not imply that the actions specified would not otherwise have been performed.

The Taliban cooperated with us on issues that weren't addressed in that document, demonstrating that the document was not the only reason for cooperation.

The objective of the Taliban was to take over Afghanistan. That document was just one small piece. Shooting us, interfering with our departure, etc., are acts that would slow or perhaps even negate our help in totally surrendering Afghanistan to them.

Helping to defend our perimeter at HKIA is a demonstration of their understanding that cooperating with us would better assure our departure without us further augmenting our forces or changing our minds about full and total departure.

The Taliban are not idiots. And, if they were, it would be even more remarkable if they drove their actions based on conformance with some document.

 

****. I was gonna post most of this but you beat me too it.

Threads dead, jim

 

Think I'll go with Occam's Razor on this.

Your ideas are like me calling the ambulance in no way proves I called the ambulance because at some point in time an ambulance would have showed up isn't rational. Its just wordsmithing to try and make a point you have no evidence of but you expect people to believe you because you typed it?
I'll stick with historical records
I know why we released the 5000 fighters and I know what we got for them. You spending time trying to prove it would have happened anyway is just a guess. It has no validity or evidence.
Sorry

 

I based my statements on exactly what the Taliban did.

That's NOT the issue.

In fact, MY answer fits Occam's Razor better than yours, because it it requires fewer assumptions.

In fact, it requires only ONE assumption. And, that is that the Taliban is following their self interest.

 

Heres your first clue
When the Taliban make an agreement and then do what the agreement says
Thats not an assumption, its fact

When you try and rewrite the narrative by guessing what would have happen anyway without the agreement to fit your own agenda
Thats assumptions

Don't tell me, let me guess, thats not your quote.