There is something I'm not understanding about the right wing Afghanistan narrative...

What they did and the order in which things happened are facts.

But, YOU then claimed causation.

That is NOT a fact.

Yes, the decision making by the Taliban is not fully available to us, obviously.

But, YOU came to the conclusion that it IS known to us!!!

You somehow decided that there could be only one cause for their actions - that piece of paper!

I'm pointing out that you do not know that.

In fact, I pointed out a possible justification that has fewer assumptions and fully explains ALL their actions, not just the actions that took place before May 1.

 

You started this with this quote

Yet those benefits are listed in the agreement and were adhered too as listed in the agreement. Now you want to flip the script.
It doesn't matter what you think they were thinking (That you couldn't possibly know)
It doesn't matter what other objectives they wanted to attain.
It doesn't matter what their God told them to do
No matter how much hoopla you try and talk around it, the agreement and the actions taken after signing the agreement speaks for itself.
And you can't dispute it.
So enough with the fairy tales

 

I pointed out that it is TRIVIAL to dispute the notion that one caused the other.

What's VERY hard is to support the idiotic notion that what controlled the Taliban was a piece of paper that was entirely out of date by May 1 and certainly said nothing about the Taliban helping the US extraction at HKIA.

In fact, so far you haven't even TRIED to do that!!

 

Which means you would be wrong as one did cause the other just as it was agreed too.

Another deflection as you continually try and change the subject. I never made such a comment.
Nice try but that only works with those who have IQs lower than a fence post.

 

We could have showed our intentions to withdrawal and we did not have to do it in 8 months. We had to do it when we were good and ready! We owned the night. We could do it in our time. We could have recovered all our equipment and people. Sure, we did not defeat the Taliban but they did not defeat us! (I kind of liked the idea of blowing them all to hell as we retreated when they came out of the mountains) I did believe it was time to leave.

 

Of course we did! As a matter of fact, the agreement was that we would withdraw by May. Biden managed to extend the deadline. However, I don't think it's that relevant. I don't see how we could vet any afghan allies when the Taliban had already taken Kabul.

Trump decided otherwise.

Look.... Trump signed our surrender. That's it! We lost! We could stretch the terms of our surrender a bit, but the fact is that we were done in Afghanistan.

We certainly owed them that. But Trump decided that we didn't. Maybe those who voted for Trump might take this into account before deciding who to vote for next time.

Part of me is glad that Trump signed that surrender. I wish somebody with a bit more brains had drafted the terms more to our advantage. But I wouldn't expect much from Trump. In the end, we pulled out. And the damage done was bad, but not as catastrophic as it could have been.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but did the Taliban live up to their part of the Trump bargain??? I don't think so. Trump would have not left any equipment behind. There was no surrender. The Afghan Army was not interested in fighting it's own war.....end of story. We should NEVER nation build!

No they did renig on the agreement so it was null and void. We had no agreement to honor! https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeline-of-u-s-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/

 

What part? Trump gave them the house and asked for nothing in exchange. All they had to do was start a dialogue with the Afghan government, but there was nothing that required them to reach an agreement. So they started the dialogue, and then stopped. And the other was to pinky-promise not to use their territory to launch terrorist attacks against our territory. Well.... they haven't launched a terrorist attack yet.

It was just total unconditional surrender. The U.S., under Trump, was swindled by a terrorist organization!

You might want to consider this the next time you vote.

Trump couldn't care less about equipment, Americans, translators.... He just wanted to abandon Afghanistan. The Pentagon had to convince him that it would hurt him politically if there was a terrorist attack, or if a comparison to Saigon was drawn.

 

The last sentence is key.

 

If you had read my reference "https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeline-of-u-s-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/" it was stated there would be no terrorist attacks while the deadline was pending. Of course they attacked Kabul. Biden entered into his own agreement.....Lord knows what that was but the end result is, you don't honor agreements with terrorists. The Taliban is a terrorist organization and Biden wants to honor them as a nation. It seems you are proud of Uncle Joe and his lies that "no Americans would be left behind". I believe what he did was treasonous and should be dealt with as such. You can't allow your hatred of President Trump to keep you blind to those facts.

 

Absolutely wrong! The agreement, in fact, allowed the Taliban to attack the Afghan army. Just not us. But we would not intervene to defend our allies that we were supposed to be protecting.

And please follow forum rules: links should be used to support your point. Not to make the point for you. If you claim that the agreement states something different quote the agreement.

The only agreement I know of that was signed by a U.S. President and registered, recognized and endorsed by the UN Security Council (and therefore legal and binding) is the one signed by Trump. If there is any other, you would need to quote it and provide a link.

 

You can argue about who agreed to what until hell freezes over. The fact is that Biden screwed up the evacuation beyond repair. This disaster and leaving Americans behind rests on his shoulders and no one else. It was a FUBAR pure and simple.

 

Biden had an escape Claus out of the conditions which the Taliban failed to live up too. Biden went through with the evacuation anyways. Sure he extended it slightly but his intelligence was either wrong or he ignored it.

You voted in the president and chief who's currently in charge of the United States Army. If he thought the situation was bad, we could have stayed until it was better.

Learn to take responsibility. This is no where near trumps fault. Even Biden said it was his responsibility.

Maybe you should think about that before voting in an administration more concerned with identity politics who refuses to answer media questions and when he does they are hand picked?

Literally everyone of the three main democrats in charge currently are worse than the other

If Biden dies we are stuck with Harris. If something happens to her we are stuck with Pelosi.

Good god we are screwed.

 

Like what? Please quote it from Trump's surrend... I mean... agreement.

Let's save you some time: there is none! But, even there were, what are you saying? That Biden could have just continued the war for another 20 years?

Of course he could have!

 

There was an exit clause that was in the deal that Biden could have used to either renegotiate or exit the deal outright. He made the choice to stay in.

https://fox5sandiego.com/news/world-news/did-trumps-taliban-deal-tie-bidens-hands/
You won't like that link because you will see "fox" and instantly believe it's not true so;

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-middle-east-taliban-doha-e6f48507848aef2ee849154604aa11be
https://news.yahoo.com/biden-handcuffed-trumps-taliban-deal-040436800.html
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...fed-by-trumps-taliban-deal-in-doha/ar-AANtOoc
https://illinoisnewstoday.com/did-trumps-taliban-deal-join-bidens-hand/348358/
https://www.stltoday.com/news/natio...cle_9d78d4c7-9303-59a5-b123-7f41e64faaaa.html
https://www.8newsnow.com/news/national-news/was-biden-handcuffed-by-trumps-taliban-deal-in-doha/

"But Biden can go only so far in claiming the agreement boxed him in. It had an escape clause: The U.S. could have withdrawn from the accord if Afghan peace talks failed. They did, but Biden chose to stay in it, although he delayed the complete pullout from May to September."

If the IDIOT we voted to run the country were so smart or the administration not inept, they would have reassessed the deal, exited it and renegotiated their own deal with the Taliban or just walked away from the table all together. So...you know? You can't blame Trump on this one fella.

Sorry. Ya get to own this all by yourselves. If we are lucky, maybe Biden and his generals can track down that white rage they are looking for.

 

Quote it, please!

And what do you mean by "exit the deal"? You mean another 20 years of war?

 

I literally just did along with several links who ran with this "fake news" lol

"The U.S. could have withdrawn from the accord if Afghan peace talks failed. They did, but Biden chose to stay in it, although he delayed the complete pullout from May to September."

That's the reality of the deal. Biden was not boxed in. He could have created his own timeline, his own terms. If he were not incompetent or half dead.

 

QUOTE the Trump agreement where it says that if the Afghan peace talks fail we could pull out of the agreement. The agreement... .not some wingnut opinion piece whose author is not here to defend him/herself.

I don't give a crap about links... I don't give a crap about other people's opinions when they are not here to defend them. I care about FACTS. And the FACTS about the agreement are on the agreement, and nowhere else!

Do you know what the word "quote" means? Have you even read the Trump surrender agreement? If you haven't, why are you commenting about something you haven't even read?

 

I know as much about as you do now, and the people who have read it all say it had an escape clause. So I am going to go with that, rather then your feels that biden was boxed in.

I provided you quotes and links and the rest is up to you to let the reality sink in.


For someone who claims to care about facts. You certainly seem to want to ignore some of them.

 

I read it. There is NO escape clause. In fact, the agreement states that we will not in any way intervene in Afghanistan's internal affairs in any way. It imposed NO requirements on the Taliban other than to not attack us (they didn't), that they would start a dialogue with the Afghan government (they did), and that they "pinky-promise" not to allow their territory to be used to plan terrorist acts against the United States (they haven't.... yet...)

I suggest you read it before just blindly accepting somebody else's opinion. Especially the opinion of right wingnut media.

 

You might want to discuss that with the families of thirteen marines. You might claim that was not really the Taliban, but that hardly makes any difference.

 

The majority of your posts, like this one, have absolutely nothing to do with what is being debated. So if you're not going to read the discussions you jump into, is there a reason why we should read your posts? Or is it always going to be a waste of time?

 

I responded to your comment.

As per your usual method of evasion, you attack me personally.