Trailblazing female who became infantry Marine is getting kicked out for fraternization

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Lil Mike, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    If she had been a "gunny sarge" she could have claimed; i can't stand to be around guys with low numbers and little practice. It makes me want to Do something about it.
     
  2. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All of this is human. No doubt mixed sexes in a unit present their own problems, but the solutions are often the same: discipline, unit cohesion, training and, where warranted, punishment.

    If a person, regardless of gender or even sexual orientation, is causing a problem, they need to either take corrective action or be removed from the unit.
     
  3. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nonetheless, when you claimed I wasn't who I said I was then you accused me of a felony. If you can't see it, then we're back to this post:
     
  4. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You could just admit that you made a mistake, you know.
     
  5. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LoL sure. Someone posting they were in the military on a public forum , who didn't actually serve, is committing a felony.

    Now I'm not confused anymore, I'm just a-mused.

    I must have missed your forged DD214 that you posted. lmao.
     
  6. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wrong again....but then I was wrong thinking you were a half-baked troll. You really just lacking in intelligence. Sad.

    Good to see you happy.

    What DD-214? Are you confusing it with one you made for yourself?
     
  7. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh no did I commit a felony! *gasp*

    Call NCIS to investigate a civilian like you wanted me to do to you!

    lmao.
     
  8. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I had forgotten about this, but your point seems to be that accommodations must be made to keep women in combat units, even though they're totally equal and can do anything a man can do...yada yada yada.

    If there is the luxury to reassign people that's great, but it would be easier not to have the problem at all.
     
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  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Based on other things I've heard, your Ranger story sounds totally plausible. It's also a total failure of Army values. An officer getting some sort of directive that a female will graduate, no matter what, and then passes that down to his (or her) NCO cadre has failed to uphold the integrity of the training program and of the Rangers. The training cadre are of course just as responsible. I guess no one said anything.
     
  10. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No. What you may have done is just dishonorable, not illegal.

    No need for anyone to call NCIS on you. Stolen Valor isn't a crime, so you are safe.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
  11. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure it is. I didn't call you out until until you came at me sideways in post 50.

    Deal with it.
     
  12. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    An easily disproved lie. Deal with it, son.

    Post #50:
    Post #29:
    Post#39
    I'm sure you can remember your reply at post #52. It's where you said I committed a felony. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
  13. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah when you start accusing me of backpedaling on anything I'm going to expose you. It's not like it takes any real effort.
     
  14. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Falsely claiming I'm a felon isn't exposing anything except yourself. If you really think I'm a felon, you should report me to NCIS...if you had any integrity, that is. If you don't think I'm a felon, then you are admitting you falsely accused me.

    Here, let me help you find the way: http://www.ncis.navy.mil/pages/NCISTips.aspx
     
  15. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    such a generalization is a sign of sexist and homophobic bigotry
     
  16. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    right wingers should be enraged about this since they oppose government regulation and intrusionism into people's lives
     
  17. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    How many of them did you report to the superiors?
     
  18. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Not necessarily, we are Soldiers and Soldiers follow orders. I mean honestly what was the training cadre supposed to do in this situation? This directive supposedly came from Congress through SOCOM all the way down the pipeline. It puts the cadre in a tough and unfair situation. Do they quit? Refuse to follow the orders given to them by their superiors and sacrifice their careers that they have surely put in a great deal of work for seeing how being a Ranger is no cakewalk. This isn't a failure of the training cadre, this is a failure of our government if this story was actually true.

    When put in screwed up situations like that you are basically left with two choices. Keep your own integrity and lose your career or follow the crappy order that was given to you and roll with the punches. In my opinion any order given that causes one to seriously have to question their own integrity is a poor order and the fault of whomever gave the order, not the one receiving it.

    At the end of the day for better or for worse we all answer to the civilians in Congress, many of whom have never served a day in their lives. We aren't a stratocracy, we are a republic. So whether we like it or not civilians are the overall authority over the military and if the military and the civilians ever disagree then it's the civilians who win because we work for them. That's why we have dumb **** like sequestration get pushed down by a civilian even while damn near every military commander was screaming telling them how stupid of an idea that was.
     
  19. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    This.

    I was out at dinner earlier today with the most senior aviator in our unit, good friend of mine, along with some other buddies of ours. A discussion was brought up about an aviator of ours who has struggled for many years to become competent and is just unable to get the hang of it and unfortunately the time has come for him to be forced to find a new career path. Our senior guy said in quote "This will be the hardest one of these reassignments I've ever had to make. He's a super nice guy and I've already talked to branch about getting him a new assignment that will take care of him and keep him as an officer so that he can retire in a few years. But at the end of the day this is a business, and we are in the business of training our pilots how to kill people in the most effective way possible, if they can't be trained then we can't use them, period".

    And he is 100% right. It's not personal, it's business. We all love this guy, he really is the most genuinely nice person that I have ever met in my career and a good friend of mine. But he just simply not a competent aviator and after years of trying different techniques to train him he just can't get up to par. So he has to go. Why? Because he is detrimental to the war machine, nothing more nothing less.

    That is the ONLY QUESTION that actually matters when making decisions in regards to the military. Is it beneficial or detrimental to the war machine? No emotions, no participation trophy, no progressive agenda, none of it. If you are detrimental to the war machine, whether it's even your own fault or not, then you shouldn't be a part of it.

    We aren't in the business of emotions and fairness, we are in the business of making the most efficient war machine possible.
     
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  20. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Generalizations by those ignorant of the subject don't concern me.
     
  21. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's why they fall under the UCMJ.

    If you're one of the people who can't hack it, then don't sign the contract.
     
  22. dave8383

    dave8383 Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Not really.

    Speaking from my experience, infantry, I don't think it would be beneficial to add the extra emotions that serving in a both sexes situation would produce. You arrive, as an infantryman, in a combat zone a whole person. If you survive, you leave damaged to such an extent that many never fully recover. The array of emotions that are available to you when you enter a combat zone get chipped away at, and chipped away at, until there is a hollowness in you that leaves you scared for life. That's far too toxic an environment to start experimenting with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
  23. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Straight males are the biggest victims of sexual assault in the military:

    https://www.armytimes.com/news/your...ale-sexual-assault-survivors-to-file-reports/


    If gays and females are to be excluded because they are likely to be victims or victimizers, then straight males should be excluded as well since they are the biggest victims/victimizers.
     
  24. dave8383

    dave8383 Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Great idea. Lets just not have an infantry.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  25. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Not to derail the discussion but this actually brings a valuable point to the table. Straight males are the largest victims of sexual assault in the military, yet why is this not discussed to the same extent as female sexual assault victims? Why is every single SHARP poster hanging up around installations a poster of a female Soldier? Why is it that during the required SHARP briefings that we are forced to attend every few weeks this topic is not discussed? It's overwhelmingly a discussion about females, not males, and if one were to sit through these briefings as often as we have to then you would draw the conclusion that the article linked here is completely false.

    Why do we do this? Because it's human engineering. Human beings are biologically programmed to view females as more vulnerable than males and protect them. This adds another dynamic to the equation and was one of the main reasons why it was such a struggle to even allow women to serve in combat roles. The whole "guys will run out into a bullet storm to save the female against all logic" type thing.

    Even in a military where the largest percentage of victims are straight males, they are given exponentially less attention than female victims who are actually a smaller percentage of victims. Why? Because that is how humanity itself is engineered.

    Females add an emotional dynamic to combat units that human brains are just not programmed to handle without bias. That is the problem, the military is still a male dominated society within society, the military came up with SHARP, and the military chose to use females as the poster child for the program even though they are not the greatest victims of assault because just like in civilian society "we must protect the women".

    If we were actually able to operate without bias then every poster, movie cover, etc regarding SHARP would feature a straight male Solider, for he is the primary victim. But they aren't because we as a society pay special attention to our women. We cannot effectively run a combat unit when certain people are given special attention, inadvertently or not. It adds an emotional dynamic to the equation that is bad for cohesion and overall effectiveness.

    But "it's not fair" if women aren't allowed to serve in whatever capacity they want, so we dismiss what the majority of combat troops believe is a bad idea for the sake of fairness.
     

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