Transgenderism is a hot topic, here are my in-depth thoughts on it.

Not that you want to know or care what I think, but for the few that do, agree or disagree, I'm expressing it in this thread, and let's discuss. I thought a more complete treatise is warranted on this subject, and I haven't really seen it, so I went for a deep dive, see what you think. Of course, I realize I'm disagreeing with many of my liberal brethren on this issue, but I feel someone has to say what I have to say.

If a transwoman wants me to treat him as a her, I will, I don't want to fight. Live and let live, and all that. However, you have to earn it, you have to really make that transformation and be convincing, because I swear, some transpersons look, sound, appear like men in drag. That's not good enough for me and yes, it's in the eye of the beholder but that's life.

Welcome to the cold, cruel world and I got my own problems, too.

But, for those who have been successful trans ( such as Fran Blanche on YouTube) I can't change how I think. To me, they are effeminate males. In my view, they are not being honest with themselves if they think they are authentic women, as a woman who is biologically female is. That's my view, okay? Now then, lots more on this subject.....

Now, from here on, preface my statements with the concept for 'those who are successful, convincing ( for the most part) transexuals.'

So, I don't want to fight, I'll call them whatever they want to be called. If they want me to treat them as I would any woman, with respect, no problem. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect, if they are decent people. I would open a car door for any woman who expects it, and I would do the same for a transwoman. I would use their preferred pronouns, and terms of endearment, when it is appropriate. In short, I would treat them as a woman because they will feel like a whole person when they are treated that way, if that is what a transperson wants.

But there is a border, for me, and beyond it, its a push too far. Beyond it, you/they et al., are asking for too much.

And it goes like this:

First, a word about a sibling to this subject, there is the subject of androgyny, A-Sexuality and the new chic term, 'non binary'. In my universe, there is no such thing as non binary, you are male or female or intersex. But there is no such thing as non binary unless you were born without chromosomes, and if that were the case, you wouldn't exist. No, I'm not going to use 'they' which is plural word, for a single person who claims non binary. You are a male or female, pick one and that is the pronoun I will use. If you are intersex, pick one. If you are androgenous, it's okay to be androgynous. I will still treat you with respect. Your androgyny doesn't change the fact that you are either male, or female. But, pick one and I wil use masculine or feminine pronouns to your requirment, but 'they'? No way, José. English is English, I refer thee to the dictionary. How you think about it is irrelevant to that fact. Now, back to the subject of this thread; transgenderism and gender fluidity.

If you are a transperson, or woke lefty, (I'm a liberal/libertarian, fyi) don't ask me to changing my thinking on the subject (as described in it's entirety herein --- I will surely give you the opportunity to try and change my mind, of course, speak up), ie., in my private inner sanctum, that of my mind, That I can't do, sorry.

Because, in my personal universe, a transwoman is either an effeminate homosexual male, or an effeminate cross dressing hetero sexual male. For me, that is honest. For me, personally, in my private inner space, that is honesty.

Now, of course, everyone who choose this path deserves to be treated with respect and equality under the law. NO problem there.

Now, does that mean I'm accusing transwomen/males of lying? Lying is a strong and insulting, disparaging word, but let me put it this way: I think they are not being honest with themselves for believing they are actually a different gender than their birthright. For me, and for hundreds of years, perhaps millenia and beyond, gender and sex were biologically determined. No way I can ever see someone born as male change their gender. I sure as hell can't think it, and the reason is that is how I am structured. I guess I'm old-fashioned on this issue. But, I'm willing to give as much as I can give, on the subject. You're asking for too much if expect me to think of you as a real woman, that I can't do.

Outwardly, in the public space, I will comply with your wish to be treated like I would treat any woman, with respect and dignity. But don't invade my private inner mind, force me to think of you was a real woman. I'm perfectly willing to comply with the outward pretense that you are a woman, for your sake, if that will help you feel like a person, for your emotional and psychological need and benefit. I'll go along, sure, no problem. But that's all I'm doing, and many like me, are doing, you need to know that, and you need to accept it. Why? that's life, WTF, life isn't fair.

If you don't want to hear opinions such as mine, then don't ask me, or make videos about it, or post it in an internet forum for debate or hangout on PF or similar places where this debate is inevitable, and because there is a political dimension to this subject, don't think there isn't.

But, that, my friend, dear transperson, is the best I can do. I'm sorry if that isn't enough, but there it is. I call a truce, you game for that?

If you want to argue 'stereotype', no, sorry, gender isn't about stereotypes, it's about biology. Or, rather, it is for me and a number of similar folks. It always has been, it's only in the last decade or so that it as grabbed the public space in a big way.

For me it is about biology insofar as 'authenticism'. Gender is a word to replace the word 'sex' on forms where the creator of the form wants to know if you are a male or female. See, the word, on a form, where it asks your for 'sex' check a box for male or female, it isn't asking for what you think you are, it's asking you for your biological sex is nor is it asking you if you had intercourse the night before, so they now use the term 'gender' for 'sex' on forms. . Now, I understand that in some places, that is changing, okay, fine. I disagree, but, okay, fine. It never was, until a few years ago, about psychological gender, gender was just another word to replace the word 'sex' on forms of one kind or another than that check box since the word 'sex' could imply sexual intercourse, which, writ large, the form isn't asking about. But, some pranksters and wise guys will answer a form which asks for 'sex' with a 'yes', or 'not lately'' just to be cute. Replacing the box with 'gender' solves that little problem. But, in some venues, it's changing, okay, fine. I disagree, but that's me.

Heck, remember the term 'gender bender' attributed to androgynous persons, such as Freddie Mercury and David Bowie, Little Richard, but these androgynous males were never thought of as women, only males, effeminate males. The very phrase' gender bender' suggests that something is trying to change the gender, which suggests that the gender is tied to the biological, not the psychological, and that only of late, is gender now being thought of in terms of the psychological, it's become a chic thing, in liberal circles, to think of transwomen, particularly, as real women. Even AOC started referring to herself as a 'menstruating person'. I love AOC, as a liberal, myself, but she's nutty on that one (not don't go harping on her, this threat is not about her, please).

Well, not all of us think that way, and not most conservatives and libertarians, though some might. But, the debate is far from settled, and it won't be for the near foreseeable future, so you need to know how at least half of the population thinks.

And there is nothing wrong with being an effeminate male, one that needs to wear women's attire, makeup, etc, and be treated in public as a woman would expect to be treated. Nothing wrong at all.

It is my belief that psychology has come up with the term 'transexual' out of respect and compassion for these people, because the old terms, transvestite and 'cross dresser' are pejorative. I'm fine with, that, too. I think it is a good thing the term was created to wash away the pejorative connotations, the stigma attached to the old terms.

Bravo, psychology! But don't ask me to 'think' that a transwoman is an authentic woman, that I cannot do.

I will be happy to treat her as one, outwardly, in public spaces or even in private ones, use preferred pronouns, etc.

And don't accuse me of being transphobic, that's nonsense. I would gladly hire a transexual, treat one as a decent person, befriend one, if a transperson wants to be my friend (and we have chemistry as friends should have), etc. I don't know any because there just aren't any in my narrow circle of friends.

Can I be fooled? At a distance, sure, but up close and personal, I can tell, trust me, I can tell, and so can many sensitive males. However, if you, the transfemale or transmale you fool a heterosexual man or woman who is approaching you for dates, and more, you have a responsibility to tell them, and let them decide from there, if they want to pursue you. Don't go around demanding of society to think of you as an authentic woman, for you are not, you are an effeminate male, and that is that. You can ask, but you can't demand. I know some places are trying to legislate this, but that's just crazy. You need to at least accept those of us who think this way, because we, like you, cannot be any other way. You are structured a certain way, and so are we. If there is conflict, let us negotiate how we treat each other and find compromise ( such as my suggestions given herein). This is a negotiation, we give, you give, we come to terms. You can't have it all, not now, anyway. Maybe in 50 years, things will go 100% your way, I don't know.

Oh, and of course, I'll give you the opportunity to change my mind on that fundamental point, but I doubt you will succeed though you are welcome to try, if that is what you truly want to do. Just know that I've given this a lot of thought.

Where I disagree is that 'gender preference' actually changes gender.
In my view, it doesn't. I don't see how anyone an claim it. Oh, some psychologists will claim it does, but that's just an arbitrary thing. They can holler 'science', but that's arbitrary, really, and, as far as I can tell, it's only the hard left that is making this a thing, and because they (psychologists) can do it where science doesn't really matter. FYI, I'm a democrat/liberal/libertarian. I know I'm disagreeing with many on the left on this issue, but so be it. Know that I believe in the ERA, the legalization of drugs and victimless crimes, universal health care, the negative income tax, and democracy.

But, though I'm arguing that the psychologists will claim it is science, but only where it doesn't really matter or change anything, there is science where it does matter, to wit:

If you are a transmale, you cannot take the Y-chromosome DNA test to discover your paternal lineage, you, like all authentic females, have to resort to getting that data from a male relative, such as a father or brother.

Why? You do not have a Y chromosomes. That, too, is 'science' --- where it matters.

Well, what about intersex? Sure, if they do, then they can. Intersex has anomalies of the X-Y and XX chromosomes, including genitalia, and whatever they are, they have a choice, they truly do, as how they want 'authentically' be, because they have the chromosomes and genitalia to back it up. But intersex is a statistical anomaly. Nature is abound in anomalies, but anomalies are not a species, or it's own gender, it's just an anomaly. Anomalies are natural.

But, other than intersex, being a transexual doesn't change gender, it only changes how they want to be treated, as a woman for birth males and a male for birth females. I'm okay with that. Some folks aren't, but I am, which is giving transpersons more than a lot of folks, which I suspect are mainly those right of center on the political spectrum who won't even give them as much as I am, here.

But there is a border through which no transperson has the right to demand I cross, and it is thus:

As stated before, the salient point of this OP is: Don't demand me to think you are an authentic female (if you are a transwoman) or think you are male, (if you are a transmale). You have no right to place such a demand on me, and people like me, nor do you have the right to accuse me as 'transphobic', but that's false, not to mention a fundamental lack of understanding of what a phobia is.

Diving a little deeper:

At dances, for example, don't expect a straight man to ask you to dance, one who knows you are trans, and no, they are not transphobic, it's just that they perceive dancing with you would tell others in the room that they are gay, and they are not, not to mention the more salient point is that males only ask females to dance with, authentic females, because of the male to female chemistry. I mean, even as a youngster at a party, if my grandma was there, I"d ask her to dance, not because I was attracted to her sexually, and I most certainly wasn't, it was because she was female and females, at dances, expect males to ask them to dance, that's the reason for the dance, in the first place. But, I'm not going to ask grandpa to dance, for obvious reasons I don't believe there is a need to explain. There is such a thing as male / female chemistry, whether there is sexual attraction or not.

Take me, for example, I have a female friend, and it's a platonic non possessive love. We go out every couple of months, she lives in L.A and I live in San Diego, and we trade driving to each other's city, but we go to restaurants and theaters. She knows I'm not attracted to her sexually, and has accepted that, be she has accepted my platonic friendship.

But it's not like a friendship I would have for any of my male friends. I wouldn't ask male friends to go out, regularly, for dining and movies. It's because there is a difference between a male to male friendship, platonically speaking, and a male to female friendship, platonically speaking, which has to do with inner chemistry. I suspect it might be similar for the gay population. But, I would allow a gay person to chime in on that point.

If you are a transexual, then don't expect to heterosexual males to find you attractive as female companionship and all that goes with it. You might find a hetero male that wont mind, though I believe most heterosexual males will not be sexually attracted to a transwoman. I am not, and don't accuse heterosexual males of being 'transphobic'. This isn't about stereotyping, it's about physical chemistry, molecules, pheromones, it's very cellular, indeed.

I know one gay man who told me that he would have no problem with a transwoman if she did not get the operation.

That makes sense, he is gay. He likes effeminate men. He told me that he cannot fathom a transwoman mutilating herself and he needs a penis for sexual arousal. See, that's how some males view the subject, and they are not transphobic for that viewpoint.

We will respect you as much as we would anyone else, equality under the law and all that, treat you as a woman as much as we can, but don't push us past that border, for that you have no right to do that.

You do have the right to be treated as you wish, as a woman, be called a lady/woman/girl, in public, and not be denied employment and you do have a right to be referred to with the appropriate pronouns, though you can't force it.

to be continued next comment ( because of 16k character limit) .....

 

Continued....


But I will only state 'my opinion', if you, the transperson, ask me, or put the subject up for debate. If you do not want to know what I think, then don't ask, or put it up for debate or read this thread or hang out in political debate or similar forums.
Another thing, about 'gender fluidity'. Yes, there is a spectrum, but it's similar to electrical polarity of positive versus negative. There are varying degrees of positive voltage and there are varying degrees of negative voltage, but even a near zero positive voltage cannot be thought of as negative voltage. Why? Simple; because it isn't.

Same with degrees of masculine and feminine. Yes, there is a spectrum, but there are only males and females and intersex, that's it. The spectrum merely accommodates these, they don't change any of them from one to the other. Those who want to argue there fifty something genders, nuts to that. Why? That's chaos. Sorry, that doesn't cut it, for me. For thousands of years we had male and female, and I don't see the need to rock that boat. Sure, we don't do a lot of things that we used to do, we got modern, but I don't see the need to rock this particular boat. Why? It's chaos, and some of us don't like chaos.

I realize some people have gender dysphoria, it's a real thing of stress for some follks, well, you have my deepest sympathy, but welcome to the cold, cruel, world, and I got my own problems, too. Welcome the club called 'life'. You just gotta live with who you are, that's the best lesson anyone can learn, in my humble opinion.

If an effeminate male came to me and wanted to be transfemale, wanted my advice, and then asked me about surgery, if they ask me about it, I would discourage it. I would say, okay, be trans, and you can expect most people to treat you as a lady, if that is what you want, but if you go for surgery, you are crossing a line from which you will never be able to return. What if, 20 years from now, you change and want to go back? Can you honestly tell me that that is impossible?

Also, finding a mate will be harder. Why? Because no hetero male I know finds transwomen sexually attractive, penis or no penis. You'd be better off with your male genitalia because there are gay men who prefer effeminate males, and it is my opinion that there are far more of them than hetero males who will find a transwoman sexually attractive. And your ability to achieve a climax will probably be impaired (I'm not up on the actual data). This is a drastic move, and I would strongly recommend against it. The same goes fo breast implants. There are some males that love women with small breasts, and you are likely to acquire them with hormone treatment. Just live with small breasts and many women do.

That being said:

I fully support the rights of transgender people to live free from the fear of violence, and to enjoy fair and equal education and employment opportunities.
As for as women's sports, I don't know about that, I'm skeptical but I'll wait for the powers that be to sort it out.

As for women's facilities in public spaces, no using women's bathrooms if a woman's facility allows for more than one occupant if you have male genitals. Why? because you are an effeminate MALE, what you think you are doesn't change what you are, and that's why. For post ops, I say let women vote on it, and I'll accept what they find acceptable. I'm okay with it if they are. Until the day comes that number gets to a significant majority (who see it 100% the transperson's way, you'll just have to wait. How would anyone know? You want humans to treat you with respect and honesty, then you must treat others with respect and honesty.

But honestly, (can we be honest? ) as stated before, some transfemales look, sound, like men in drag, and here I'm thinking of Caitlyn Jenner. Sorry, to my eyes he's a man in drag. I can't change how my mind works on it. I can't unthink and deny what my eyes see. And I cringe when I see other liberals trying hard to look at Jenner as a woman, it's a tough thing to watch, when he comes on TV. I mean, if you want to trans, work on it, but I'll treat like you as a lady when you've earned it. If that isn't good enough, then, that's life. Tough tittie in the city, pun intended .

However, some transfemales have really done a great job of the transformation, congratulations! But you're still an effeminate male though I'm perfectly willing to treat you as I would treat any woman, if you've earned it, and that, of course, is in the eyes of the beholder, for it cannot be any other way on this subject, and this is reality that you must learn to live in. Life dealt you a tough hand, but welcome to the club, you're not the only one with big problems, I've got plenty of my own.

At least 50% of females, I suspect that the more conservative and/or old fashioned ones will not be comfortable with it. Not only that, I expect criticism from my liberal brethren who are going to quote all sorts of 'science' for their position. No, science is not the final arbiter on this, because it's a cultural/psychological debate more than anything and you sure as hell can't argue with DNA testing, it's biology all the way. 'Science'.

If you are a transperson, for me, and people like me, Just don't crash the border, that's all, and, as Bill Maher says, the left is taking things too far, and darn you libs for giving conservatives the hammer to kill us with, and they are killing us with it. Is this the hill we want to die on?

Liberals, Please consider what I've written. If you want to know the truth, it is for my liberal friends this OP is primarily intended. Let me know what you think, thanks for reading. Polite and civil discourse, criticism, approval, whatever, is welcome.

Oh, for the entertainers, this OP has nothing to do with men in drag as entertainment. That's a different subject, entirely.

 

Too much logic in your post. The liberals might take away your lib card
Be careful when going against the hive!

 

@Patricio Da Silva Good post.

I suspect that even the most “woke” liberal would agree with you in the privacy of their own mind, but not openly.

My only niggle is the part about sports, where you are ”skeptical” but sort of on the fence. To me, this is a no-brainer.

Other than that, you wrote a lot of truth.

Seth

 

I have got to admit I am honestly impressed. Your line of logic is the new “coming out of the closet”. I agree with you on 90% of your post. The other ten percent is that I refuse to appease them in public or in private. Science does not lie and I will go to jail before I get caught letting my kids believe that someone’s feelings matter more than factual biology.

I also don’t think that transgenderism should be treated the same under law. As in protected employment and protected pronoun preferences. As far as being protected from assault, ability to enter contracts, and things of that nature of course they should be protected. But should an employer be forced to ignore what I believe is a mental illness? Not at all.

on the rest I agree. And I fully applaud you for stepping over party expectations. I doubt it matters to you but you have earned a lot of respect from me although we disagree almost always.

 

I think they’ll be a bit more skeptical once the first so called woman to land on the moon is a transgender, or when most titles for women athlete will be obtained by transgenders.

 

If you were born a male and want to be a female instead well then good luck to you. I don't see why the rest us have to have our kids taught about trans-sexualism in the third grade to satisfy your need to be declared normal. Leave the rest of alone to live our normal lives please.

 

You seem close to this already, but: The bottom line really is respect in conduct/words (not necessarily thoughts) for people who are different. I mean, I've been around hideous natural-born women plenty of times before. I still treat them as a woman, not that I really know for sure looking at some of them. Just because I find them repulsive doesn't mean I have the right to call them ugly or fatty instead of their name or preferred pronoun. A trans person is really no different for all practical purposes. I wouldn't date them, but I can work with them, maybe be friends with them, and definitely respect them. They have challenges I couldn't possibly understand, because I have never been them or lived their life. I don't know if they're crazy, a brain in the wrong body, or what, but it doesn't matter. Let them pursue happiness the same as everybody else, even if you think it's weird.

As for "they" no it's not only for plural prior to trans being a major cultural issue. It's regularly used when the gender of a single person is unknown. "The author's identity was secret, they were very careful." I guess some people say "he or she" but many use "they" instead, sounds less awkward. Maybe it varies by state. I can only speak for Oregon and California.

 

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Good points.

Yes, there is that exception. We don't have a gender neutral third person singular pronoun, or a second person plural, as the portuguese and spanish do with 'voce' and 'usted' Personally, I wouldn't use 'they' I would just go with 'he or she', which is more and more common, now.

 

I want to know. Such political discussion is why I am here on this forum.

Great! I'm ready.

Feel free to disagree with them much more often... You'd be better off for it.

IOW, a man.

So you realize full well that he is a he and not a she.

Why condone his self delusion? Why condone his mental illness by pretending that he is perfectly healthy when he very clearly isn't?

Neither do I, but I won't back down from the truth either.

True. I won't tell him how to live his life, but I won't pretend that he is somehow a woman either, nor will I make use of incorrect or meaningless pronouns no matter how much that might offend him.

No matter how much of a "transformation" he undergoes, he is still a he.

I completely agree with this part.

I will not pretend that he is a woman, no matter how "woman-like" he appears to be.

Here, I agree. I won't be nasty towards him, unless he is nasty towards me first (and even then I still might not become nasty in return), but I will not pretend that he is a woman.

I wouldn't. I refuse to pretend that he is anything other than a he.

I agree.

While such a case can make it much more difficult to tell, there's still only male and female. Here, in such an extremely rare case, something went wonky with regard to the sex chromosomes.

Correct. Non-binary person is simply a meaningless buzzword. No such person exists. Gender is a binary system (male and female) as are sex chromosomes (X and Y).

I'm interested as to why you are willing to pretend that a he is a she, but unwilling to pretend that a he or a she is a they... Is it because he's and she's actually exist but "they's" don't? Personally, I'm unwilling to pretend in either case.

I will only use the pronoun that the person actually is, per anatomy.

Agreed.

I agree, although I am not attracted to androgenous people in any way (as I like to know that such women are actually women, and like my women to look like women), but that's my personal preference.

I will not do that. I will always use 'she' for a woman and 'he' for a man, because that is what the truth is. I will not pretend that someone is something that he/she isn't for sake of their feelings.

I still don't understand why you choose to pretend for the one instance but refuse to pretend for the other instance, but you do you.

I agree completely. Such people are deluding themselves. The difference between you and I is that you are willing to pretend with regard to the he/she delusion and I am not.

TBC, due to character limit.

 

That's what these people do. The fact that you are willing to pretend that they are something that they aren't in an outward manner is not enough for them. For them, you MUST also accept them as they claim they are within your inner mind as well. Personally, I won't even bother pretending. They will hate me regardless, just as they will hate you too.

Agreed, but they can't help themselves. They insist that you conform to their beliefs. That simply won't happen, and they need to get over themselves and just accept that some people are not going to see this issue the same way that they do, and some people (such as myself) are not even going to pretend that a he is a she or vice versa.

No, they aren't. They insist that you must adjust your inner mind to their will.

Agreed completely.

Agreed completely.

Agreed, except for the "loving AOC" part. I can't stand her.

Agreed.

Agreed, except that I will always refer to this male as a he (and never a she).

Most of your fellow liberals will call you transphobic anyway, because that is all that they know how to do whenever someone mucks up their programmed mantras as you are doing. Such people obviously do not know what a phobia is or else they wouldn't be spouting off such nonsense.

Same, but they'd have to be okay with me refusing to use their "preferred pronoun", choosing to use the pronoun that corresponds with their biological anatomy instead.

I agree.

I personally refuse to negotiate.

Agreed.

Agreed.

This is a good thing. It shows that you at least have some ability to think for yourself. Bravo! (and I genuinely mean that).

Generally agreed.


This is where I am finally wore out from how wordy you were with your post, and I feel that it's getting repetitious at this point, so I'm going to stop here. I think that my views are expressed well enough at this point.

Overall, you made a pretty good post and I generally agree with most of what you posted. Bravo!

 

You have summed up my thoughts quite well.

 

Well, on other 10%, I hear ya, but, it's like this

First, after all, I am a liberal so I'm more inclined just to throw up my arms and compromise on a point like this one.

It's not that much skin off my back to treat a transwoman like a woman, so I do, rather than fight all the time.

Also, if they realize everyone doesn't actually think they are real woman, and are just going along with the pretense, maybe they will have an 'emperor has no clothes' epiphany, and go back to being effeminate men and masculine women which is okay, nothing wrong with it, as Seinfeld would say. .

Or maybe not. I don't know.

But, who am I to speak on how significant a 'need' is on this point? But, since it's no skin off my back, not to speak of, anyway, and it will allow for more harmony, so I go along with it. For me, it's not that big of a deal.

 

I'm pretty much in agreement myself.

BTW, every teacher that's ever told a student to show their work is proud of you today.

 

Well an ugly woman is still a woman. You wouldn't apply male pronouns to her so I'm not sure that's a good comparison. It's just good manners to not call them ugly. In fact, in normal conversation and usage, there would be no reason to insult them unless that's the intent.

It's a bit different with the trans community. As the philosopher Dave Chappelle noted, how far do I have to go to appease your delusion? I think for most people, there is only so far they are willing to go to affirm a mental illness or fetish. If a guy thinks he's Napoleon, there is no reason to get into an argument with him to convince him that he isn't Napoleon; if he wants to think that fine. But I'm not going to continue to affirm his delusion by addressing him as Emperor or First Consul.

 

Oh, thanks, I do appreciate it where we can find something to agree on.

I also agree with conservatives on the subject of how psychologists are ruining education, in the sense of things like 'no testing because an F hurts 'self-esteem'. No, you can't dish out self-esteem like candy, it, like everything else in the world, has to be earned, and no better way than to be honest. If you get an F because you are lazy, you need to hear about it, and no better way to give a child and F, and maybe he can think about it and try harder the next time. Self Esteem is a parenting issue, in my book. When I was a child, I had terrible self esteem, and got bad grades. I loved my parents, but they were just too damn nice and let me get away with **** no parent should let a child get away with.

When did it change? When I joined the military and they kicked my ass, didn't take my excuses and cop outs and whipped me into shape.

 

No *****? What branch? When? I was Army 1974-77.

 

I don't think they are 'ill' per se, see, Because psychology is the real reason for their delusion, they never would have believed they could be women, and they lived in my generation. If it were an 'illness' it would have happend withotu society's help, but history shows this isn't the case. In the past, men who dressed as women were always called 'transvestites' or 'cross dressers' there was none of this business saying they were 'real women'.

they, like so many effeminate males in my generation, though they envied women, and I"ve known them, they just accepted who they were.

I don't blame them for their delusion, so I just go along with it. The real fight is with psychology and the hard left, who are so wrong on this issue I don't know where to begin.

In 1972, while taking a bus, I got into conversation with a gay guy, very effeminate, who told me, what he really wanted was what a woman wants, the arms and love of a man, and he envied women, they aren't gay, they are heterosexual, and that if he had been born a woman, he wouldn't have to live a gay life. See? He was tired of being gay.

Had he been born in the 2000s, psychologists would have told hem that he could be a woman, if tp wanted to, and he'd probably be getting the chop by now, and viola! No more gay! I suspect many who are like that fellow I met back when, today, are just effeminate males, envious of women, tired of being gay, living the gay life, and suddenly society tells them that it's okay to transform into a woman, nad that you will really be one when you do it, and so they do it. And now they are mutilating themselves under the belief they can be authentic women. This is a crime by psychologists, in my view, who have propagated this delusion. And now children are getting puberty blockers?

I don't see how psychologists have helped those people. I think being honest is, by far, the more spiritual and healthy position, because, for years, psychotherapy was learning to accept yourself for who you are, not what you think you are, but what you actually are. Today, that's upside down and psychology has gone bonkers.

http://politicalforum.com/index.php...-depth-thoughts-on-it.600248/#post-1073486215

Well, it's not so much of an grammar issue.....
same as above
http://politicalforum.com/index.php...-depth-thoughts-on-it.600248/#post-1073486215

No, here it is a grammar issue, not a gender psychology issue, and because on third person singular pronouns where gender is unknown, rather than the awkward 'they', I would use 'he or she'.
Grammatically speaking, the former is acceptable but the latter is more grammatically precise. I don't even think there is a rule on this. I'll have to check. But either are acceptable, as far as I know.

Most of my answers to our difference are in the above link. Where I draw the line is non binary, but I will accommodate their choice, and, again, I explain why in the above link.

 

I was navy in the mid to late 80s. Honorably discharged as E4, electronics tech. I could have joined in 74, but I was still a hippie then. I joined the Navy when I was 34. I was almost drafted in 1969, but beat the draft on the lottery.

 

Well, what if their name is Pat and you can't tell? You look for cues from them or the people around them, and it's by what they prefer to be called, not by a check of their genitals or organ inventory. This is just manners and it's exactly the same. They could be an ugly woman, or a trans woman.

It's not going very far to call somebody who looks like a man she or they. Easier, frankly, than somebody who insists on being called by their traditional foreign name that I can't pronounce. If I had somebody at work who wanted to be called by a title that I don't think suits them, I'd use it anyway. Why? Because it's more important to get along than be right. I could tell every Christian I meet that their beliefs are a lie, or you could do the same to Buddhists or Muslims. We could be correct, but it still wouldn't be the right thing to do. It'd be better to just respect people's differences.

 

in my entire life I have known one person that transitioned from male to female

until recently I would guess most people know not a single person that transitioned

It does seem to be a trend

I did not understand then and do not understand now

but why should I understand?? or anyone else that never gave transitioning a second thought??

whatever these trans people are going through mentally and physically is beyond my comprehension

and from reading the posts on this subject it is safe to assume others cannot comprehend transitioning either

what a person believes and what is the truth are 2 different things

these people that believe they were born in the wrong body could very well be correct

BUT

they could also be WRONG..and their belief is not the truth

one of my earliest childhood memories was my father giving me a $100 dollar bill

I believed I was rich.. despite my belief, I was NOT rich..

I was a kid with a $100 dollar bill was the truth..

just because a person believes something does not make it true

back to the topic

no amount of discussion or information will help me understand a person that transitions into the opposite sex

and you know what?? I dont care...if a person wants to change then it is not my job to change anyones mind

it is NOT my job to try and understand why a person transitions..I got better things to ponder

I also do not care who is lesbian, gay, queer, or any of the other letters people claim to be..

IT IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS

this is 2022..

I believe nobody cares who is gay, lesbian or queer except lesbians, gays, and queers

but what I believe and what is the truth are not always the same

and the above can be said about most people

even regular people !!

 

If I understand you correctly, you are not cool with placating someone's feelings over factual biology across the board? Completely.

• Do you tell your kids that it's okay to tell an overweight person to stop eating McDonald's?
• 
  
• Is it okay for them to tell the creepy aunt/uncle at holiday gatherings they smell weird?
• 
  
• Do you tell people they have bad breath or politely just step back a bit?
• 
  
• Are they allowed to tell elderly and/or disabled people to "hurry the hell up and get out the way"?
• 
  
• Do you tell your children that priests are *really* celibate?

• Is it okay to be impressed by women with large breasts? (If so, do the ones with implants count or not?).

Unless you are independently wealthy and live on your own island, you and your children are tiptoeing various lines with people constantly. That's what living in society is.

You don't have to agree with what a business owner chooses to do relative to his or her company regarding this issue.

If you don't like their policies on transgenderism (or anything else), you can best make that known by not doing business with those companies. That's what makes them pay attention to their client base.

 

.

 

That’s not the same as forcing a lie on someone. The slow person isn’t trying to force you to claim they are fast. The fat person is not trying to force you to say they are skinny. Those with bad breath are not trying to force you to say they smell like roses. Not even a close comparison

 

I’m not talking about business policies and I’m not sure how you got that impression. I am saying they should not be forced by law to accept them and be forced by law to make lies of biology.