Trump Seeks New $15 Billion Subsidy To Protect Farmers From His Own Trade War

You're kidding yourself. Protectionism hasn't been a tenet of the republican part in my lifetime. The party has been for free trade at least as far back as Reagan.

 

Awe, isn't this cute?

 

You have walked back your denial that more and better paying jobs means less poor people so I'll let you off the hook. Have a nice day.

 

The only thing you have demonstrated is that you don't fully comprehend what you read. Have a nice day.

 

So just to clarify and as a standalone statement do more and better jobs reduce the number of poor people? Yes or no?

 

I agree that outsourcing our manufacturing base was short sighted. Blaming only the liberals for this however is preposterous nonsense. You can thank Reagan and subsequent Red Admins for this (and the Establishment - which is both Red and Blue).

The 3%-6% value add from China is mostly a function of the fact that the majority of the cost of making an Iphone is due to components. The screen for example comes from Samsung (Korea) and the chips come from Japan.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-iphone-skews-u-s-trade-deficit-idUSKBN1GX1GZ

This is part of the reason why attributing the entire "retail cost" of the iphone as part of the trade deficit with China is completely disingenuous. Political Games.

Less iphones being sold - due to high tariffs which increase cost - does almost nothing to China. It is the companies such as Samsung and Toshiba that sell less components that suffer. The amount of Labor required in some factory in China is not going to decrease by much. The pain to China is almost nothing.

The other people that suffer is the US consumer and the farmers who get hit with counter tariff's and boycott's. Lose, Lose, Lose.

The other lose - perhaps the biggest - is that while we engage in these tariff wars, protectionism and sanctions - the rest of the world is doing business without us. This is costing us big time already - but the future costs are potentially much greater.

You are ingesting way too much Trump Kool-aid. You are so desperate to defend Trump that you are turning off your brain.

 

Wow, just wow. Of course not if the "more better jobs" causes job losses in other areas and raises costs. You NEVER get a net job increase when you enact protectionist policies.
I'll agree that if you simply add more jobs that it does indeed increase the number of jobs available lol. Again, context. It's important.

 

I was stating that the idea that more things should be manufactured in the US is a good plan. The argument I have been making is that these tariff's and protectionism and trad wars are a bad plan.

 

Actually, UpChuck Schumer supports the tariffs and is encouraging the Great Pumpkin to hang tough.

FYI, China has been waging a trade war against the U.S. for years. The only difference now is that unlike the doormats who preceded him, we finally have a president who has the stones to respond.

Do you know why the folding lawn chairs who preceded Trump failed to stand up for us? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it was because they knew that responding to China's economic aggression would result in a full scale trade war and like all wars there would be pain. Knowing this, they didn't have the personal courage to risk their political hides to upset the rotten apple cart. Why stick your nose in a fight when American businesses and workers can take the punches for you?

It's easy to complain about this situation and pretend there are painless alternatives to dealing with China but sending the Wardens of the Laogai a stern letter telling them how upset you are and asking them to stop robbing us isn't going to cut it. Lest you've forgotten, these are the people we are dealing with:



They're not interested in playing nice with you, me or anyone else - they're going to push you around until you force them to stop pushing you around. In case you haven't figured it out yet, the preservation of their illegitimate grip on power and the drive to fulfill their strategic economic and military ambitions is coming at your expense. Screwing us over has been a racket that has worked magnificently well for them - it simultaneously strengthens them and weakens us. What makes you think they're just going to give that up?

They're not.

Since Trump is such a moron and you're such a genius let's hear your brilliant, painless plan how to deal with a bunch of thugs who only understand the language of power and force and would gladly put a bullet in the back of your head if you came between them and their own interests.

 

You left out the word better and you left out the fact that more and better jobs would reduce poverty but I'll take that as a sign that you do understand this basic and fundamental economic principle.

 

What's the alternative plan to help balance the trade deficit with china? How would you get them to drop their tariffs on our goods?

 

Thank you Josephwalker I now understand that x + y > x; y > 0. Thank you soooo much for pointing it out, it really furthered the discussion.

 

It's pretty hard to convince Americans we are involved in a trade war and need to sacrifice and "feel some pain" when we are doing so well. Seems to me we should target unfair policies with strategic counter measures that aren't predicated on f*cking over working Americans.

 

Dont say stupid things and I won't point out stupid things you say. See how that works?

 

I'll make sure to dumb down my posts so there are no further misunderstandings. Sure it's tedious but, apparently, it is necessary.

 

Oh boy, graph wars


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You can make them even dumber? This should be fun.

 

LOL!! So we see deficits growing for the same time span as American standard of living increasing. And you're arguing that deficits are bad? Sorry son, the data does not seem to support your position.

 

Since only 3%-6% of the cost of an iphone is attributable to China. Using this figure instead of the retail cost of the phone would immediately reduce the trade deficit with China. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-iphone-skews-u-s-trade-deficit-idUSKBN1GX1GZ

The above is 3-6% of the manufacturing cost... which is about 400. the contribution to the retail price of 1000 dollars is then 1-2%.

As you can see - much of this trade bluster is Politics and does not reflect reality.

 

The left's been telling us our middle class is shrinking and standard of living is going down, first time in history kids won't do as well as their parents and wages have stagnated. Pick a story and stick with it.

 

Reality is China has had long standing tariffs on our goods which has exacerbated the trade deficit and you have no plan to force them to drop these tariff and conduct free trade with us. Then there's the theft of intellectual property to deal with which is fuel to the fire.

 

I just showed you the raw freaking data. Can you think for yourself?

 

To the extent that is true, which you haven't even tried to show btw, we can impose strategic polices that aren't predicated on f*cking over the average American.

 

Why are you saying stupid things "you have not plan to force them to drop these tariffs". I am not the President and this has nothing to do with the subject we were discussing.

I agree that Chinese tariffs are an issue and that intellectual property is yet another - That is not however, what we are discussing. Quit moving the goalposts.

You asked about the trade deficit. I answered. That you do not like the answer is no reason to pretend that reality does not exist.

If you want to talk about the other issues you have brought up I am happy to do so but don't start accusing me of stuff that we have not been discussing and that I have stated.

 

True.

Interesting you brought up Reagan because I was just thinking about how his decision to ratchet up the arms race and thus wage an economic war against the USSR that it couldn't win hastened the demise of the Soviet Union. As you surely recall - and our LW friends are fond of reminding us - this came at no small expense, but many of us, including myself, were willing to pay the price and would do it all over again. In many respects, the situation we're facing today is similar to the one we faced in the 1980s, which is what got me to thinking about Reagan.

So, how do you think we can force the Chinese to acquiesce to our demands? Reagan's economic war against the Soviets didn't come without its own cost/pain - how do you think we can wage an economic war against an intransigent China and achieve our objectives in a cost/pain-free manner? I'm not convinced we really have any painless alternatives to dealing with the Chinese but perhaps you can persuade me otherwise (sorry, I haven't been closely following your arguments with other posters).

EDIT:

What are they?