Trump wants to leave NATO!

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by WillReadmore, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Multiple reports including from inside the administration say that Trump has repeatedly brought up the idea of leaving NATO.

    And, now we see that Trump has blocked all reports of the content of several meetings with Putin - who has as a years long and serious as a heart attack desire to have the US do exactly that.

    Putin can't make progress in expanding in eastern Europe or in other related areas where NATO stands as a shield against Russian expansion an influence.

    If there was EVER a reason for impeachment, dumping our defense against Russia would certainly be at the very top of the list.
     
  2. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is Trump saying something dramatic to keep himself in the headlines no doubt - the "disaster de jour".

    Not sure where you are getting the "expansion in Eastern Europe" stuff from. Since when did Russia want military expansion into eastern Europe ? It was Russia who let all the former Soviet states have their independence ... Something like 14 of them.

    That NATO went into many of these nations and built bases was a violation of both the spirit and the letter of agreements and warmongering in general.

    Russia desires to expand economically and that is the source of the angst against Russia - right, wrong or otherwise.
     
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  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    It's confirmed by executive branch insiders as something Trump has brought up in numerous internal meetings. Mattis and others have backed him off of it. They say that in some meetings they have just sort of nodded and moved on to other issues - brushing the topic aside.

    Crimea was not economic expansion.

    It does sound like at least the spirit of various agreements. Presidents do that all the time. Look at our own actions in the ME.

    The main thing is that these nations have chosen to move toward western Europe and away from the dictatorship and oligarchs that come with Russia's influence. And, NATO has defended that move.

    Another aspect of this is that we are a major contributor to NATO decision making, and NATO nation forces have aided in our objectives repeatedly - something that has benefited our national defense strategy. It's not that hard to claim our national defense strategy is crap, but the thing is, NATO is there when we want their help.
     
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  4. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with your comments on NATO - we have benefited greatly from that alliance and still do.

    The port in Crimea is a Russian Strategic interest and has been in Russian hands for 400 years. There was no way they were going to allow that port to fall into NATO hands and every NATO leader knew it .. YET - after massive meddling in the Ukraine electoral process - managing to get a pro western leader in power - they went ahead and Poked the Bear anyway.

    Then when the Bear did exactly what they knew the Bear would do - strutted around feigning ignorance "Why did Russia do this". 100% clown show and hypocrisy on steroids.

    Oligarchs ? You have to be kidding .. Western Oligarchs are raping and pillaging eastern European countries like crazy.

    Regardless - this has little to do with building based all around Russia.
     
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  5. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    NATO is a major opposing force to Russia. Russia has wanted it gone for a long time.

    Trump had a secret meeting with Putin and soon after he returned to the Oval Office he announced his intentions to give Putin what he wants regarding NATO.

    The only logical explanation is that Putin has compromised Trump and owns him, so Trump dances for him. If that can be proved it is sufficient cause for removal of Trump, and the Republicans who resist it would then be accomplices to Trump's crimes.
     
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  6. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

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    It always makes me laugh when democrats are all for war.

    Russia has a tiny economy and far less than 1/2 the population of the USA.

    The soviet union no longer exists, and we dont need to be paying the EUs bills.
     
  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Not woth discussing.

    You're running entirely off topic.
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You have it backwards.

    NATO has successfully held the eastern border without war.

    Now, we have Trump and Bolton - who want OUTof NATO and are actually SEARCHING for a justification for war.
     
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  9. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

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    no they dont want to pay the EUs bills for defense.

    The EU can defend themselves.

    Russia is a paper tiger.
     
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  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Since when was wanting to stay in an international agreement “wanting war”?
     
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  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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  12. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    nato can still 'do its thing', they'll just need someone elses' dime... us pulling out wouldnt mean we are giving russia help, it means we're fed up footin the entire bill for world security...
     
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  13. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Ya a paper tiger with nuclear bombs that is working to subvert and dominate various countries. Sowing division, dissent and disruption to the point of instigating violence via cyber war being their main strategy today. And it's working. Look at what they're accomplishing in the USA.
     
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  14. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

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    yeah yeah yeah and theyre 1/3 of what they were in the 1980s
     
  15. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

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    Merwen likes this.
  16. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

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    It aint a trade agreement....
     
  17. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    I agree, Nato should stand but the US financial share should be halved and the remaining states picking up the slack. They want US protection but cheap energy. Sending money to Russia so that they can spend it on military means and then ask the US to pay to defend them from Russian military.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
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  18. An Old Guy

    An Old Guy Well-Known Member

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    High among Putin's goals is he wants NATO busted up, Trump reportedly wants do whatever is necessary to help Putin achieve this goal...a goal the Soviet Union / Russia has had for 70 years.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
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  19. Questerr

    Questerr Well-Known Member

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    Financial costs of NATO are apportioned by population.

    It’s really ****ing rich to claim that the US is being used by NATO when the US is literally the only country to ever invoke the organization’s mutual defense clause and when we did, our allies showed up to help us in a fight that had nothing to do with them or Europe.
     
  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was responding to a side point that you brought up. On the main point we are in agreement.
     
  21. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    How is trying to get out of a defense treaty also wanting to start a war? Why would we want out of it and then try to fight without those same people that would help us in a war?
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
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  22. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

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    Trump is doing Putin’s work. Lifting sanctions on Russia, bringing up the prospect of leaving NATO, and we don’t know what promises Trump made to Putin in those meetings either.
     
  23. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    As Vlad the Bads butt buddy ,Dirty Donald is doing more to harm and destroy the USA and democracy than anyone in our history.
     
  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Please reread my post. I didn't say that what you suggest in the first sentence.

    In our recent wars we've always had troops from EU countries fighting beside. Sometimes that was through NATO. Sometimes it was through the UN.

    Reports say that we (through Bolton and presumably the president, as Bolton is his man) actually spent time looking for a justification for going to war against Iran. Crazy.
     
  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Amen.

    And, through the last years there is no reason to believe that Putin doesn't have large amounts of highly embarrassing info on Trump.

    For example, we know that Russian officials have been discussing what was said in the several meetings between Trump and Putin - the meetings where Trump made sure that NO American knows what they were talking about.
     

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