U.S. Budget Deficit Widens 11.8% in First Quarter of Fiscal Year

that makes no kind of sense defining a word makes it meaning no pretending it means something it doesn't and using it that way until it can mean anything makes it meaningless.

Norway in Canada socialist their capitalist Venezuela is socialism. Unhappy stripping the title of socialism away from Bernie Sanders not a socialist in the strictest sense he just wants to bankrupt the nation. Maybe if we were a little less liberal with the way we define the word socialism he wouldn't be able to get away with it.

Thank you

yes and I think we should cut spending. Just because I think we should stop doesn't mean I'm going to label everything socialism that doesn't make sense.

I would called spending spending and socialism socialism. Because spending is spending and there's already word for spending its spending. This is a different word than socialism we can tell by the pronunciation and spelling. We don't need to make all the words mean the same thing that's not useful.

 

I understand your definition of Socialism - and Extortion is Extortion - what ever we label it.

Sanders does not want to bankrupt the nation - he may spend less than Trumps current spend rate - until he gets into office we don't know.

What we do know is that Trump is bankrupting the nation.

 

So forgiving student loans and no further student loans will cost nothing? And Medicare for all will cost nothing?

How?

Interesting.

Sanders would do so quicker.

 

1) free tuition would cost roughly 200 million/year - less than Trumps increase to military spending.
2) Adopting one one of the better European systems straight across the board would reduce Healthcare costs by half. Using the 2017 spend of 3.5 Trillion - that is 1.75 Trillion in savings split half and half between the Gov't and the Consumer = a decrease in the gov't spend of 875 Billion.

That's how.

I don't see Trump making any effort to tackle the systemic issues that have resulted in our Healthcare extortion racket. He wants to maintain the status quo to pad the pockets of the healthcare and insurance Oligopolies.

 

So he would have to cut spending.

Healthcare costs aren't the governments cost. Assuming the costs costs

Not in reality.

Paying for commodities isn't extortion.

No he wants to undo at least some of the government interference that Sanders is advocating increasing. Trump isn't perfect just the lesser of two evils.

 

Paying double the price for the same commodity is extortion.
Healthcare costs are paid for in part by the Gov't - Assuming costs are costs - and the reality is that we paid 3.5 Trillion in 2017.

Trump may or may not be the lesser

 

same as what?

Government shouldn't be paying any of it.

Compared to Sanders? He most certainly is the lesser evil. Sanders wants to bankrupt our country, we've been over this.

 

You likened healthcare to a commodity. We pay roughly double what other first world nations pay - for the same commodity.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-conservative-case-for-universal-healthcare/

Anyone can have an opinion - but - is it informed ?

I realize you keep saying this but, you have not substantiated your claim - nor refuted arguments to the contrary.

 

So you would accept the Democrats higher spending over Trump's proposal but blame Trump for the resulting deficits?

 

Again, it depends on the specifics.
My answer isn’t going to change.

So far I like much of the cuts trump is proposing in his 2021 budget (“after the election”) which target fraud, waste and abuse.
If trumps budget was cutting all healthcare education and environmental regulatory bodies and moving those funds to the war budget then yes — I would blame trump irregardless of what the democrats proposed.

 

healthcare isn't a commodity though. It doesn't and can't operate in a free market system, because the consumer has no choices. every first world nation that has a single payer or universal healthcare system, gets better care than we do, and at a fraction of the cost we pay.

 

You have his budget we see the increased spending the Democrats are proposing.

So which side?

 

Don't get carried away. Obama had less deficit because he borrowed a lot to fund the spending. But, like you, government spending makes my stomach hurt, no matter who spends it. I'm amazed that voters are dumb enough to put up with it.

 

Really? I wonder why the healthcare industry spends so much on advertising. I've used the healthcare system a lot and I have all kinds of options and choices. The problem is that all of them are expensive. The real problem is that the consumer of the services isn't the one who pays for them. Having government pay for them won't change that. It will just provide a bigger pocket for the industry to pick.

 

having a single payer gives that single payer much more bargaining power. You do not have much choice in providers with private insurance. You have a network of facilities and doctors you can use. If you have a heart attack, stroke, car accident or any other of a thousand other examples, you have zero choice in where you are getting treated. You are going to the nearest ER via ambulance and you will be paying whatever they charge. This is why it's not a commodity, and why every other first world nation that has single payer, gets better care than we do, at a fraction of the cost of what we pay.

 

I see. You want people who spend other people's money to do the bargaining? That makes me laugh. That is insane and always results in higher costs. Always! At least the insurance companies have a profit motive to help protect their money.

 

I have not read his entire budget for next year (when he will potentially be out of office) and I have not seen what democrats are proposing. Have a link, I will happily read though it.

 

Why are you keeping yourself so uninformed then coming here to try and debate it?

 

I have nothing to compare the 2021 budget trump has submitted vs the Democratic house 2021 budget because they have not submitted one to my knowledge. How am I uninformed on something that doesn’t exist?

 

except we have the data which shows this isn't the case. Every first world nation with single payer pays a fraction of what we do for healthcare, and they get better results.

 

Healthcare as well as all other goods and services provided by someone else's labor should be treated as commodities. The value of them should be decided on by both the patient and the doctor not by some dictator if you want that move to Venezuela.

present any objective measure that it is the same commodity because I highly doubt that.

providing people with more government services has to cost more money. It can't possibly cost less because that doesn't make sense.

And the national debt is trillions of dollars. Without pillaging wealth from the people how are you going to pay for all of this?

 

I already addressed that. You can believe in federal government all you want but you won't convince me about anything other than removing things from them, not adding to the monster.

 

The House is not going to submit one and you have an election coming up. So which side do you support Trump with a budget that proposes spending cuts or the Democrats including all the candidate and their demands for huge increases in spending?

 

Well, you are certainly free to deny reality all you want, but this does not change it. The data clearly shows single payer systems provide better care at a fraction of the cost of ours.

 

This has been studied to death - we rank middle of the road among first world nations - and we pay double - and have no universal healthcare.

Did I not give you this link previously ?
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-conservative-case-for-universal-healthcare/

More Gov't services can be provided for half our current cost.

You don't see too many people dying in the streets in Canada, Britain, Norway, Germany ... and so on .. because of lack of healthcare coverage .. but again - this has been studied up the yang.

You are experiencing some kind of "thought avoidance" reaction. How many times have I now said "Half" - and you speak as if I have not said this.

Debate that claim if you wish ... but do not speak as if you have refuted that claim - ... you seem afraid to even address the claim head on ...

Yoda: "trying to slide down various rabbit holes you have been"