US Debt Clock

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by TheAngryLiberal, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Donor

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    THE PATHETIC SITUATION OF UPPER-INCOME EDUCATION

    I have another reason, more embedded in economic theory.

    Our latest (last 3 decades) runaway spree of buy-out market consolidation was unfair. It's purpose was to enhance corporate profits, and its result was to reduce drastically Market Competition.

    The ultimate consequence of market-competition reduction is higher consumer-prices that simply increases costs-of-living.

    The economy needs a brazen shakeup. It requires far more market-competition and that can only come about from corporate divestitures to make markets more competitive.

    It can be done, but not without some angst and ... well ... reallocation of resources. Which is the technical word for "layoffs that eventually become new-hires". Typically, such requires people to change residences to find new jobs.

    That is happening today, but the social cost is high. Whyzzat?

    Because those bearing the most burden are those of an age where going back to schooling to enhance ones CV is simply not on. (Or never was.)

    The sad fact of education in the US is that it is TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE FOR FAR TOO MANY PEOPLE. The NCES figures that only about 45% of all high-school graduates go on to a post-secondary degree (vocational up to a doctorate). From Quora here:
    As for graduation rates, also from the NCES:
    As the country progresses into the Information Age, 36/46% achievement in any post-graduate study IS INSUFFICIENT. The numbers graduating should be double that, and they would be if post-secondary education were available free, gratis and for nothing at state institutions of higher learning.

    Bernie and Hillary had got it right. The US needs to build a post-graduate educational system that is identical to secondary-schooling. But because an antiquated Electoral College that got the election outcome all wrong her bill offering postsecondary school enrollment paid for by the government (for families earning less than $125K a year) never got off the ground.

    And with another four years of Do-nothing Donald, the situation will only worsen ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    If they're not what they "should be", you need to look at additional approaches to dealing with the problem besides just education.

    The other problem is that, increasingly, those educations are not paying off for far too many people.
    The answer to the problem isn't just pushing more educational degrees.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  3. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    The choice over the last 40 yrs is pay for spending with taxes or go further into debt by cutting taxes and raising spending. Guess which party does what.
     
  4. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    It is indeed sad to see the politicians selling out main street America and Reagan was the man who started the trend that is exactly where corporate America took over and it's all been downhill for the majority since then...But hey, be thankful fer what you have before they take it away also...Grow yer own food, clothes and smoke it's the best way to live.....Because this monster that was created can't stop or the beast dies, and that beast's' name is industrialized mass consumption....Nothing better than riding to Hell in a handbasket-Wheeeeeee

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
    LafayetteBis likes this.
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Donor

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    Nope!

    We are moving OUT of the Industrial Age and INTO the Information Age. Which means that an advanced degree with specialized-knowledge is more and more the norm.

    People slapping products together has long since left both the US and the EU a long, long time ago.

    Where beyond Secondary-schooling does one obtain "specialized know-how or knowledge"? Uh, Tertiary-schooling!

    Which, for everyone to have an equal chance, should be free, gratis and for nothing.

    And is in the EU but NOT THE US* ... !

    *And why? Because the Electoral College stupidly preferred Donald Dork to Hillary Clinton (who actually WON the popular-vote election).

     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  6. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Donor

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    Some nice individualistic notions, but hardly possible.

    The "monster created" is our own doing. Yes, it started with Reckless Ronnie - and it resulted in amalgamation of industries for the sole purpose of reducing competition and increasing oligopolies.

    In fact, they are against the law - but what is needed is an Attorney General conscious of the law and willing to implement it. Not one AG (including Obama's) was willing to take on BigBusiness. Obama's AG is now "just fine" having reopened his office as an attorney and guess who's his best customers are likely to be.

    Time and time again, Uncle Sam refuses to understand the very same socioeconomic problem that happened a century ago:
    [​IMG]

    Will we not ever learn? Been there, done that.

    TWICE IN OUR HISTORY - THEN AND NOW!

    Our anti-trust laws are historic monsters to be forgot? Not in any economy that strives for economic-fairness for all its members!
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  7. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    The questions remains, why aren't forum righties preoccupied with the national debt like they were when Obama and Clinton were in the White Wash House?
     
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    I guess we don't need low paid immigrants then.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  9. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    Um.... Hate to point out you are either purposely lying or just do not have a clue what you are talking about, but , it is Congress which is responsible for the budget, and all they seem to be willing to do is attack Trump. It is Congress's job to control spending and reduce the debt.
     
  10. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    But But But then who are going to vote for the Democrats?
     
  11. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Donor

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    Right, and how do you do that with a Replicant Senate to veto everything that just might accomplish that feat?

    It also did not help in the least that Trump kissed-ass of his super-rich friends by reducing their income taxation - with the purpose of assuring the big-bucks to get reelected.

    We must have one of the most dismal political establishments of any developed nation. And all this for the muney, muney, muney ....
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  12. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Um, did you point that out to Republicans when they were whining about the debt under Obama?

    Just askin'.
     
  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump has set new debt records every year, stopping cheap labor from Mexico is not gonna reduce the debt

    dems are tax and spend
    repubs are borrow and spend
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  14. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Senate majority is NOT ATTACKING Donald Dork.

    Yes, Nancy, in the HofR would like to get him impeached. That aint-gonna-happin (I figure), but the newspaper stories about impeachment will help in next year's elections.

    Political games people play ...
     
  15. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    Yes, I always correct people when they are being blatently publicly stupid.
     
  16. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Ew I hate replicants. What with their ability to violate our rights. Why do we even put up with the state?
     
  17. TheAngryLiberal

    TheAngryLiberal Well-Known Member

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    In a little over a Month, since August 26 2019 the National Debt has risen from $ 22, 538, 000,000 to $22, 777, 450, 000 as of now which is roughly about a $239 BILLION in about 40 Days. Anybody else think we need to curb America's spending instead of adding a bunch of Free Stuff programs the Democratic candidates want to give in exchange for VOTES in 2020. Myself, I don't really want to see my Taxes go up anymore, but how are we going to Stop and PAY for this Debt.

    https://www.usdebtclock.org/
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  18. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Donor

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    FREE STUFF?

    You are evidently ignorant of the present distribution of Free Stuff from the Federal government's Discretionary Budget.

    So, for the Nth time on this site I insert it here:
    [​IMG]

    Note that 57% of the budget goes to only one entity - the DoD!

    So, just where do you think we should start Cutting the Budget's FREE STUFF?

    Huh? Where ... ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  19. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Donor

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    And who are you to decide who and what-written is "blatantly stupid"?

    In case you have not noticed, this is supposedly a DEBATE Forum ...
     
  20. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    In truth the economics profession must bear some of the blame, for having us all believe the federal government must be subject to the same budgetary constraints as the rest of us.

    Ellen Brown, of public banking fame, has been exploring this issue for a long time; here is a recent article from her blog:

    https://ellenbrown.com/2019/08/30/the-key-to-a-sustainable-economy-is-5000-years-old/

    "As economist Michael Hudson writes in his provocative 2018 book, “…and forgive them their debts,” debts that can’t be paid won’t be paid. The question, he says, is how they won’t be paid."

    In fact there is no reason why central banks - the government bank - cannot create deposits to fund public policy directly, which is a privilege currently exercised only by private banks.

    from Bill Mitchell's blog - professor of economics at Newcastle Uni, on MMT:

    Fiscal deficits or surpluses occur in modern monetary economies. A modern monetary economy such as Australia and almost every major economy has four essential features:

    • A floating exchange rate, which frees monetary policy from the need to defend foreign exchange reserves;
    • Modern monetary economies use money as the unit of account to pay for goods and services. An important notion is that money is a fiat currency, that is, it is convertible only into itself and not legally convertible by government into gold, for instance, as it was under the gold standard.
    • The sovereign government has the exclusive legal right to issue the particular fiat currency which it also demands as payment of taxes – in this sense it has a monopoly over the provision its own, fiat currency.
    • The viability of the fiat currency is ensured by the fact that it is the only unit which is acceptable for payment of taxes and other financial demands of the government.
    and

    Governments do not spend by “printing money”. They spend by creating deposits in the private banking system. Clearly, some currency is in circulation which is “printed” but that is a separate process from the daily spending and taxing flows;
    • There has been no mention of where they get the credits and debits come from! The short answer is that the spending comes from no-where but we will have to wait for another blog soon to fully understand that. Suffice to say that the Federal government, as the monopoly issuer of its own currency is not revenue-constrained. This means it does not have to “finance” its spending unlike a household, which uses the fiat currency; and
    • Any coincident issuing of government debt (bonds) has nothing to do with “financing” the government spending – again this will be explained in a further blog.

    In the case of the central bank, the constraint to credit creation is the nation's available real resources (including labour); in the case of the private banks, lending (and hence deposit creation) is limited by the number of credit worthy customers asking for loans.

    So far all I have seen on this thread is Left arguing with Right. The same nonsense debate is happening in Australia - and everywhere else; CB's are even flirting with negative interest rates....for the first time in history it's better to be a borrower than a lender (or saver).

    In the same vein:

    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/the-economists/debt-and-deficits/11044374

    "Federal Treasurer Josh Frydenberg says the budget is almost back in the black. But what does that even mean, and is a surplus even something we want?

    Answer...No. We all (wrongly) believe it's desirable because it's our lived experience; ie, we all (as individual citizens) have to pay our debts on time. But this is not the case with the federal government, which faces no deadline to repay debt.

    More:

    https://theconversation.com/memorie...-to-fight-unemployment-the-promise-won-115376

    <<Lately, governments and oppositions have been obsessed with “returning to surplus” in order to balance the budget.

    It hasn’t always been so. In the lead-up to the 1961 federal election, unemployment had climbed above 2% and was creeping towards 3%. (By today’s standards that doesn’t sound much, but for two decades since the onset of the second world war unemployment had been mostly well below 2%.)

    The Labor opposition, led by Arthur Calwell, went to the 1961 election promising that:
    "Labor will restore full employment within 12 months, and will introduce a supplementary budget in February for a deficit of £100 million, if necessary, to achieve this".

    From the end of World War II, there had been a bipartisan commitment to full employment in Australia. As laid out in the Curtin government’s 1945 White Paper, Full Employment in Australia, this was achieved by “stimulating spending on goods and services to the extent necessary to sustain full employment”.>>

    It's time you lot started listening to Prof. Stephanie Kelton, of MMT fame.

    [Admittedly, some ignorant US senators actually proposed a BILL to ban MMT....no doubt based on a good dose of paranoia; imagine if China finally wakes up - if it hasn't already done so - that its government debt is not the prime constraint on its economic development...]
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  21. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Won't the creation of more dollars reduce the price of existing dollars?
     
  22. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    No, that's known as the quantity theory of money. Prof. Bill Mitchell has thoroughly debunked it.

    First questioned by Keynes long ago :

    https://www.investopedia.com/insights/what-is-the-quantity-theory-of-money/

    "And John Maynard Keynes challenged the theory in the 1930s, saying that increases in money supply lead to a decrease in the velocity of circulation and that real income, the flow of money to the factors of production, increased. Therefore, velocity could change in response to changes in money supply. It was conceded by many economists after him that Keynes' idea was accurate".

    Meanwhile central bank governors around the world are running out of ideas, as national economies fade...orthodox monetarist neoliberalism is fast approaching its use-by date.


     
  23. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    Oh hell. Like the old Frankie and Johnny furniture store ads used to proclaim in Nawlins, if they want it, "Let 'em have it.":roflol:

    It grows on trees. Whatever illegals want give it to them. They are the most important people in the USA.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  24. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying that the price of money doesn't change with increases in the supply of money? Is that your contention?
     
  25. TheAngryLiberal

    TheAngryLiberal Well-Known Member

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    That's the price we pay for the United States being chosen and the Worlds police Department. America has Military bases all over the World and that costs Billions to run. It would be nice if we could reduce that Military Budget and get some of these other countries to pick up the cost of their own security and President Trump has discussed this problem at frequently. I'm all for lowering the Defense budget, but I'm also not in favor of increasing the USA's spending by implementing programs offering FREEBIES to people in exchange for votes. Let's take care of the Homeless problem we have in America FIRST! and start reducing this Debt, then we can start looking at providing Free stuff to people. I will never be on board with offering Free Medical services to Illegals who cross here illegally though.
     

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