What should be done about people that framed General Flynn?

Read all about it
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-associates-prison-faced-criminal-charges/story?id=68358219

 

People associated with trump is different then people in his admin. Not one person in his admin is in prison.

 

First off, please don't be rude. I did not insult you.

Now, if item 1 in comment #256 doesn't convince you, read comment #271. If that doesn't convince you, nothing will. It is my guess that like most Trump supporters, you need Flynn to be the victim and the FBI to be the villains because that's what Trump wants.

 

I said the points trying to be made in post #256 was ignorant, not that you are, so stop trying to play the poor set upon victim.

Is it so difficult to cite the crime committed by Flynn. Sending me to go read some other post, because the first post was a flop, is silly.

Flynn committed no crime in his phone call to Kislayak, none. The FBI decided to claim that since Flynn did not have perfect recall, that he lied. Then after bankrupting Flynn, the Mueller team threatened to go after his son, if Flynn did not make the false statement that he lied to the FBI. It was a coerced statement, it was unethical to use it against an innocent man like Flynn. Sadly our legal system allows it, because it's often the only way they are able to bring down drug lords and terrorists.

 

<Mod Edit> You claim defacto "Flynn is a Bad Guy" - and give some support - but it is weak support since there are many reasons one might lie to the FBI - and not be a "BAD GUY"

Regardless - whether Flynn was a "Bad Guy" is irrelevant to misconduct by prosecution - conduct which makes anything he said or didn't say - inadmissible. You completely avoid addressing this reality - by a bait and switch tactic ... talking about some Trump AG misconduct.

 

You're regurgitating old lies from Strock. Get over it. You've been exposed.

 

i think that obama and his democrat cabal will set precedent by going to prison for spying

they effectively made America a communist third world country like china

 

Grasping at straws. Pathetic

 

Barr is impressing me - Reading his rational - was bang on the money. This was an illegitimate investigation.

There were two (2) "quazi" legitimate National Security issues. I say "quazi" because I don't buy either of them - and especially not NS issues that meet the bar - which is similar to a declaration of Martial Law (ML) - such that "Gov't" is given special powers - which allow violation of certain civil liberties.

I accept that such a bar exists - but do these 2 issues meet that bar ?

1) FB ads purchased by Russians - I say this barely makes something that we could legitimately call a national security issue of any significance. ..and completely fails the ML bar.

2) DNC Hack - OK - I'll bite - Spying is a National Security Issue of some significance .. but this is happening every day both US and them - and China and others.

But Yes - If Flynn - Former Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency - or Trump - Candidate for President - was involved with some plan to Hack the DNC - this is an issue that meets the bar.

Now if it is "Russia" that did the Hack - does it make a difference ? Say between China - Germany or the National Enquirer. Not really - but Russia sounds so nice and threatening. This was not the nuclear secrets being hacked - which Russia has anyway.

What Russia would want most is high tech .. giving economic advantage - that is the only thing worth taking these days - a true "National Security Risk".

but I digress... Turns out Cloudstrike could not say it was Russia .. and The DNC hack was relatively minor w/r to being some big National Security Risk.

So both are weak - but check of there was involvement ... and if sufficient evidence - then consider a special council.

There has never been any evidence that Trump/Flynn - was connected to the FB - Ads - nor that either was involved in the Hack.

So why was this charade launched ? - OH Ohhh .. but they are perhaps linked to trying to procure or disseminate information info obtained from the Hack.

Well that's nice -but it is perfectly legal - as ruled by the Judge in the DNC civil case DNC vs Trump and the Russians ... a case that completely failed - Judge stating defacto that there was no illegality in receiving or disseminating such information - you know - that whole "Freedom of Speech/Press/Information" thing we have in our constitution ... gets in the way sometimes.

And in any case - this does not come close to the bar of National Security Issue - how is releasing dirt on some candidate .. a National security issue ? Sorry ... bzzzzz .. in fact how does this harm our electoral process - as was claimed by so many pundits and the Media.

How does the voter knowing "The Truth" about some candidate - prior to voting for them - "HARM" our electoral process ?

The investigation team knew very early on - 2 weeks or something - into the investigation that there was no there there .. that Trump was not connected to 1 or 2.

There was then no "legitimate" justification to grant "special powers" - and violate the liberty of countless individuals - including Flynn.
And even if you could say the SP - powers were legitimate - they are only to be used to investigate 1 and 2 .... not tax fraud a decade ago .. and so on.. That is out of scope - and "illegitimate" use/abuse of authority.

 

For me, there is only one thing. When Trump proclaimed: "drain the swamp", he announced to all that he wasn't going to play the game.

That scared, and motivated, all of the bureaucracy to bring out the long knives.

 

Out of government would be great for the Country. Locked up for a long time with no book deals would make me happy!

 

This is where we diverge - Trump is the swamp - no doubt about it - you don't get into the chair unless you are a vetted swamp creature. Trump is just playing for a different team.

 

Yes, those who buy into the "Obamagate" bullshit certainly are...

 

Bullshit. "Your list is silly, and it's ignorant." That's personally insulting, as you intended. Don't split hairs. It's my list, therefore calling it ignorant and silly is calling me ignorant and silly.

I sent you to another post because another user on this thread had a better grasp of all of Flynn's dirty dealings than mine. Like you, I was focused only on the lie about the calls. Giving you that comment number makes more sense than copying and pasting.

Flynn's crimes went way beyond calls with Kislyak, and those calls went way beyond protocol and propriety. He knew that, which is why he lied about those calls. Saying he was coerced is calling him an idiot, IMO. He was not some poor brow-beaten kid unaware of his rights. He could have stopped that interview at any time and asked for his lawyer.

 

From the dictionary:

Obtuse: annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.

That's insulting. Why are so many righties and Trumpsters uncivil in this discussion? I didn't insult you, did I? There seems to be a desperation here to defend Flynn and make the FBI into villains, probably just because that's what Trump thinks.

There is nothing in any of this little fiasco proving any misconduct by the FBI. Flynn committed several crimes, and lying to the FBI about the nature of his calls to Kislyak was the least of them. That's why he copped a plea on that one count. And no, he was not coerced or under duress, unless you think he's an idiot. Did he ask for his lawyer during that interview in his White House office? No. Did the FBI tell him he couldn't call his lawyer? No. Did the FBI agents imply that they could also charge Flynn's son for his part in Flynn's other crimes? Yes, of course they did. That isn't coercion, it's leverage. Law enforcement does that all the time.

And don't give us that nonsense about Flynn's calls to Kislyak being above board ... if that were so, Flynn wouldn't have lied about it.

Michael Fynn is either guilty as charged, or he's too stupid to have had such a long career in the military and intelligence work.

 

Cry me a river.

You have not cited one single crime by Flynn. His call with Kislyak has been declassified. Once it gets released we will all see that there was nothing in that call that criminal. Flynn knows Kislayak's calls are monitored anyway, so why would he say anything on the call that was improper in the first place?

Flynn's only fault was not having a perfect memory about what he discussed, and pieces of **** in the FBI and the Mueller investigation used that BS to coerce Flynn into making false statements.

 

If laws were broken, then convict them and send them to prison.

 

Since when is requesting civility in a public debate crying? I'm just asking for basic good manners from you, nothing more. I won't hold my breath.

As for Flynn's other criminal activities:

- His now-defunct Flynn Intel Group (of which his son was a partner, btw) was paid $530,000 by a Dutch-based company called Inovo BV, which in turn had ties to the Turkish government. The money was for a contract to produce a documentary to boost Turkey’s image, and to conduct research on Gulen. Flynn did not register as a foreign agent until March 2017, after his meeting with FBI agents.

- He was heavily involved in a plot to kidnap Gulen, a Turkish cleric living in PA in self-imposed exile. The penalty for that in PA is 20 years, which is likely why Flynn agreed to a plea deal on the lie about conversations with Kislyak.

Michael Flynn knowingly broke the laws of the country he claimed to revere. Lock him up!

 

If you are insulted by characteristics you see in the mirror - then change your appearance. The term "Obtuse" which can have more meanings than the above - although both apply in this case - is kind correction.

For the record - I dislike Trump Mightily - the difference being my arguments are way better than yours.

The above illustrates that you have not understood the claim on the table ... which is

1) Russiagate includes more than Just Flynn - The claim is that the basis for "special powers" granted to the Special council/prosecutor was illegitimate.

2) That second claim is that even if the basis for granting increased power was legitimate - this does not entitle the SP unlimited power. The investigation is to confine itself to things material to the issues cited in the basis for claim ... which are 1) DNC Hack and 2) Russian FB Ads.

3) The FBI has been shown to be guilty of Misconduct - and an investigation is currently ensuing - with respect to abuse of the FISA proces.
The FBI and CIA tried to set up Papadopolous by planting information on him.
Nefarious tactics were used by the FBI with Flynn 1) trying to get him into a Perjury Trap - at a time when the investigation should have been long shut down due to the basis for claim being illegitimate - 2) Flynn claims there was coercion - and given the past actions of the FBI during this investigation - it is not a surprise that such tactics were used.

Lastly - how were the calls to Kislyak material to an investigation into the DNC Hack, and Russian FB ads ?

 

Please read this.

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000016f-109b-d105-af6f-97bb428b0000

 

The transcripts of the December 2016 calls that Flynn made to Russian ambassador Kislyak show that Flynn did IN FACT collude with the Russians. He specifically asks Kislyak to have Russia NOT respond to the sanctions that the U.S.government had just placed on Russia for interfering in our presidential election.He was at that time nothing more than a Trump campaign worker interfering in U.S. foreign policy. That is why he subsequently LIED ABOUT IT!!!!

 

In Dec 2016 he was not a campaign worker for Trump. The election was over. He was head of the NSA for the incoming administration.

 

No he was not he was a civilian in December 2016!!!! The Dirty Donald administration did not begin until January 20,2017.

 

Michael Flynn was not sworn in as NSA until January 23,2017.

 

Complete and TOTAL financial restitution would be a start.