What should the West's reaction be to a Russian invasion of Ukraine be?

That's Russia's problem.

 

Is it? They are already in Ukraine, with a massive army just across the border in Russia. You think the west can sneak in 1.2 million soldiers, and take all of Ukraine before they noticed it?

 

If that's what it takes to stop Russia or China, so be it.

 

Defining insanity

 

Not at all. Tactical nukes are meant to be used if necessary. So if Russia invades the EU and it becomes necessary for us to use tactical nukes, then we should use tactical nukes.

I'm not too worried about Russia though. I personally think Russia is a paper tiger that we can bog down in endless war in Ukraine. I'm more worried about Chinese aggression against Taiwan.

 

I'm not worried about either one. Both are nothing more than sabre rattling so they can justify more military spending which makes the oligarchs who keep them in power more powerful themselves. I'm quite sure they coordinate this with our defense industry oligarchs so they can all be ready for the next trillion.

 

I have a sneaky feeling that whatever I say, you will give me an argument, for some reason.

So ok, don't send the troops.

 

Tactical nukes are nothing more than low yield nukes meant to be used on the battlefield against massive troop formations.

Most modern armies obviate their use by not having tight formations and other defenses.

In Ukraine, as I understand the matter, Russia's main tactic has been to have the Spetsnaz not wear uniforms or insignia but simply to function as criminal marauders pillaging the population while covertly supported by the invading power. Seeing as this is the major tactic of the Spetsnaz anyway this works out well, for them. On first glance it resembles what the remnants of the Mongol hordes and the Turks did to the area for years, but there is no modern slave trade, (that I've ever heard of)

 

Agreed.

Using such tactics would guarantee that the invading army would be defeated conventionally by a defending army that did use tight formations.

 

Not necessarily. My understanding is that modern armies don't use massed formations much nowadays anyway.

 

That's not my understanding, especially against a peer power. Although I will admit that I haven't made a study of modern ground tactics.

 

Nor I. What is meant by massed or tight formations actually? My understanding is they were beginning to be less used as early as WWII. Tight formations would make soldiers particularly vulnerable to automatic weapons fire and most individual soldiers are carrying weapons capable of such nowadays.

I recall reading that some of the early atom bomb tests actually involved real formations of soldiers in the field having low yield atom bombs dropped rather close by in an effort to develop defenses against them

https://www.nnss.gov/docs/fact_sheets/DOENV_776.pdf

https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2017/10/why-tactical-nuclear-weapons-are-still-thing/141540/

 

This is a discussion board after all

Good doggie, don't bite now.

 

You would think so.

 

I think of it as meaning tanks being close enough to each other that a nuclear weapon can destroy a large number of them.

 

A cruise missile to Putin's face.

 

The ruling American political class and its foreign policy experts decided to strip Ukraine of its nukes.

real smart. Right?

 

I think Ukraine had to agree to it. I suppose in retrospect it was a bad idea.

 

Tanks could be a considerable distance apart and a "tactical" nuke of 10 kilotons would still destroy a lot of them

 

Keep in mind that they are heavy and resistant to blast effects. Blast effects that will level civilian structures may not do significant damage to a tank.

That's why the neutron bomb was developed. Neutrons penetrate tank armor easily.

 

It was a very stupid idea if the US and Ukraine really wanted to keep Russia out of the Crimea and within its borders.

 

It's always easy to see mistakes in hindsight. At the time no one would have believed that Russia would start aggressively invading their neighbors.

This would have been before NATO stole Kosovo from Serbia, so at the time there would have been no president for this sort of thing.

 

Yeah! Biden gonna put a whoopin on “Corn Pop Putin”!

 

Doh!

...so at the time there would have been no precedent for this sort of thing.

 

NATO didn't steal Kosovo, it prevented the Serbs from massacring and ethnically cleansing the population!