What system is worse? Facism or Socialism?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Turin, Sep 10, 2021.

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What system is worse? Facism or Socialism?

  1. Facism - I lean left

    7 vote(s)
    63.6%
  2. Facism - I lean right

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  3. Socialism - I lean left

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Socialism - I lean right

    3 vote(s)
    27.3%
  1. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes.

    Well, your 3rd. example needs adjusting. 3b) Makes you hurt others that you don't want to hurt. ie. go to war against people who have done you no harm.
     
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  2. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    They're not mutually exclusive propositions.

    State Socialism must be fascist to work. No society will ever volunteer in its entirety, to the principles of Socialism (work to eat, conformity, loss of choice), so the only way it can ever happen is via force.

    The idea that Collectivism (ie socialism and communism) is democratic is an absurdity, also. At least in the sense we know democracy - in that we're free to choose how we'll live.
     
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  3. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Well spotted. They're indistinguishable - because socialism only works under fascism.
     
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  4. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Newly Registered

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    Why didn't you just link the articles you copied from Wikipedia?
     
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  5. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Newly Registered

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    You misrepresent a representative constitutional republic to be a democracy.


    Some interesting quotes.

    https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2011/12/03/what-the-founder-thought-about-democracy/

    Democracy is rule by the majority of the people. This is in fact what happened in the fascist state of Italy. The people vote to take from others and give to themselves.

    The OPs question makes no sense primarily because Fascism is a form of Socialism.
     
  6. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    And 6 million more are exterminated in the Holocaust?

    1. Trump doesn't believe liberal democracy is obsolete, he was democratically elected, de-elected and always acted democratically. "And regard the complete..." what exactly?
    2. A strong leader doesn't necessarily have to be a fascist leader?
    3. None of the 3rd apply to Trump whatsoever?
     
  7. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

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    Nonsense.

    The claim that 6 million Jews were killed, starving or otherwise in peril has been made well over 150 times and as far back as the early 1900s (1). It was a deliberate lie the first time and it was a lie the 167th time.

    The same grossly inflated number has been debunked by the impartial Red Cross 1946 Report. (2)

    Finally, no mass graves have been discovered in Air Photos (3) or ground research(4), (5) containing even a tiny fraction of some of the outrageous numbers claimed by the fraudulent Holocaust Industry. (6), (7).

    In other words, there is absolutely no hard evidence to support the myth that 6 million Jews were killed by the Germans during the WW 2 era.




    (1) "167 newspaper and other references to "Six Million Jews" 1900-1945"
    http://www.whatreallyhappened.info/6Mx167.html

    EXCERPT
    1. #165 1944 - Nahum Goldmann, Jewish Western Bulletin, December 8th, 1944: " ... apart from Jewish losses in combat service, 5,500,000 Jews have been killed in Germany and German-occupied tesritories [territories] since the outbreak of the awr [war]. These figures exceed the number anticipated even by the most pessimistic. ... Yes, the Germans murdered close to six million Jews ... "
    2. #166 1944 - Ilya Ehrenburg, Soviet War News, December 22nd, 1944: "In the regions they seized, Germans killed all Jews, from the old folks to infants in arms. Ask any German prisoners why his fellow countrymen annihilated six million innocent people ... " CONTINUED

    (2) "INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS (IRC) DOCUMENT CONFIRMS 271 THOUSAND NOT 6 MILLION DIED IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS"
    https://archive.org/details/auschwitz_201905

    EXCERPTS:

    "OFFICIAL INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS RECORDS RELEASED

    Sealed and guarded since the end of WWII at Arolsen, Germany, the Official IRC records reveal the actual Concentration Camp total death toll was 271,301

    For years, people around the world – “the West” in particular – have been told that “six million Jews were systematically murdered by Germans in ‘Concentration Camps’ during World War 2.”

    Thousands of honest people disputing this claim have been viciously smeared as a hateful anti-Semite. Several countries around the world have jailed and heavily fined people for disputing the claim that “6 Million” Jews were killed.

    Red Cross and East German government figures put the total deaths at every camp as 272.000, and 282,000 respectively which includes homosexuals, communists, gypsies, murderers, paedophiles etc. The 6 Million figure is a Kabbalist number, a magickal figure which featured in news papers in the early 1900’s." CONTINUED


    (3) “Air Photo Evidence”
    http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndaerial.html

    EXCERPT
    The Bottom Line

    To this day there is no air photo evidence to support the alleged mass murder of the Jews at any location in Europe occupied by the Germans during World War Two. Further, air photo analysis refutes the claim that the 'Nazis' had intended, at whatever time, to keep events in the alleged extermination camps secret. In many cases the air photos provide clear proof that some of the events attested to by witnesses, such as the destruction of the Hungarian Jews or the mass executions at Babi Yar, did not in fact take place. We may hope that the release of Soviet air photos dating from the time the camps were in operation will shed further light on these issues. The fact that these photos have not been published to date may already speak for itself. That the photos in western hands were altered in order to incriminate Germany, and were first published by the CIA, is also very significant indeed." CONTINUED


    (4) “Treblinka: Revealing the hidden graves of the Holocaust”
    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363

    EXCERPT “Despite this, in a later statement they said they had discovered no mass graves.” CONTINUED


    (5) “Treblinka Ground Radar Examination Finds No Trace of Mass Graves”
    https://www.historiography-project.com/jhrchives/v19/v19n3p20_radar.php

    EXCERPT “A detailed forensic examination of the site of the wartime Treblinka camp, using sophisticated electronic ground radar, has found no evidence of mass graves there.” CONTINUED


    (6). "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE"
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U

    EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED



    (7) "HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION"
    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298

    EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”CONTINUED
     
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  8. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I'm not American. I'm talking about the Democratic West, in general.
     
  9. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear, I'm talking to Mel Gibson! Or the Iranian president? Let's start with your assertion that these claims have been made since the early 1900s?
     
  10. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

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    No, you're writing to someone who is only interested in verifiable facts and an objective view of history.
    If I am dealing with someone who is only capable of puerile name calling then please let me know.

    First, I'd like to stress that an honest and objective view of the WW 2 era has nothing to do with anti Semitism or Neo Nazi sentiment. I have no use for either.

    Based on no little amount of research and knowing, living with and working with several honest holocaust survivors, former German soldiers, Allied WW 2 Veterans and WW 2 survivors, I simply do not believe the standard holocaust narrative as marketed by the multi Billion dollar Holocaust Industry is either possible or true.

    I've already presented enough hard facts to cause any independent thinking person to reconsider the brainwashing they may have already received via Hollywood and the Holocaust Industry's complicit MSM.

    You expressed an interest in the fact that Zionists have repeated claimed the "6 million Jews" were starving, in peril, murdered etc so I hope that the following source is helpful(1).

    My limited understanding of the Jewish holy books is that they stipulate that 6 million Jews must die before the Jews can legitimately inhabit Israel / Palestine.

    Since this subject is slightly off topic, we can discuss it further at the thread below if you like:
    "About the Holocaust"
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?forums/middle-east.24/

    Thanks,


    (1)"The “Six Million” Jewish “holocaust” Myth"
    https://goyimgazette.com/six-million-jewish-holocaust-myth/

    EXCERPT:
    "The First Holocaust features an amazing collection of press clippings and propaganda articles dating back to the late 19th century that make claims of the suffering and imminent extermination of European Jewry. Among such articles we find that Jews have, dozens of times before WWII, invoked the cabalisitc “6,000,000″ number as the amount of Jews on the verge of death and destruction during various periods of turmoil and conflict in Europe and Russia. Undoubtedly, this book exposes the deliberate fraudulence of these sinister Zionist campaigns and media blitzes — long before Hitler became Chancellor of Germany in 1933 — designed to elicit public sympathy and financial support for Jewish political ambitions, principally the establishment of the State of Israel.

    The obsessive invocation of the cabalistic fable of “6,000,000 dead or dying Jews” dating back at least four decades prior to the events of WWII directly undermines and betrays the notion that 6,000,000 Jews perished in Europe between 1939-1945, as Jews have claimed. It was a lie the first time, and it is a lie today!" CONTINUED
     
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  11. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are no countries considered Fascist.

    Thirty one countries are considered socialist.

    Under socialism, you all share and suffer the misery.
     
  12. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    But remember, these overgrown 'teenager' Progressives think Socialism will look exactly like a nice cushy First World life, with plenty of options and free money. FINALLY, someone else will use their hard-earned money to fund your poetry development. Which is only fair!
     
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  13. Bridget

    Bridget Well-Known Member

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    Isn't this comparing apples to oranges? My understanding of these systems is that Socialism is a theory that will always lead to communism (unless it's stopped in time, as in Scandinavian countries). Facism is totalitarian rule, such as the Biden administration: "I'm out of patience with you. You will do as I say or else." I would not be surprised to learn of concentration camps for the unvaccinated. A fascist regime can, of course, have communism as their final goal.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
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  14. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    The Fascists were National Socialists in alliance with Stalin and his International Socialists. They later had a falling out when Hitler invaded Russia. Fascist and anti-Fascists is a family fight within Socialism.

    DOCTORS, ETHICISTS BLAST COLLEAGUES WHO THREATEN TO WITHHOLD TREATMENT FROM UNVAXXED.

    In Germany, this was dubbed “Lebensunwertes Leben.”

    Germans viewed them as "life unworthy of life". Not unlike how much of the Left views an unarmed red-hatted female protester at the Capitol Protest who was shot dead by the police. "Lebensunwertes Leben was a Nazi designation for the segments of the populace which according to the Nazi regime had no right to live. Those individuals were targeted to be euthanized by the state, through the compulsion or deception of their caretakers.

    The Left routinely paints the Right in this manner as "terrorists" or "deplorables" or "irredeemable" and so forth, they view us a less than human, so they don't really view us as endowed by the human rights that we view as common rights held by all humanity.

    The big division is between those who seek Authoritarianism over others and those dedicated to securing our common rights, freedom and liberty. That is the choice America will be voting on in 13 months.

    [​IMG]
    This poster (from around 1938 ) urges support for Nazi eugenics to control the public health care expense of sustaining "undesirable" people.
    There is no new evil in the world, the old evils just put on new disguises.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    There is zero socialism in Scandinavia. They're entirely capitalist.

    But you're right in that Socialism and Communism are the same thing. The difference in name is purely marketing. The Soft Sell, as it were.
     
  16. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    So they dont have a police force? a fire department?
     
  17. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Newly Registered

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    What do these produce?
     
  18. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Scandinavian countries are not Socialist though. They're 'Cuddly Capitalist'

    https://www.lifeinnorway.net/scandinavian-socialism/
     
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  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Donor

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    I am biased so I answered

    "Socialism - I lean right"
    due to my having read books like.....



    [​IMG]




    https://www.persecutionblog.com/2017/01/what-is-the-worth-of-a-selfish-faith.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  20. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and both are the product of capitalism. Without capitalism, there isn't the money to finance such extras.

    Do you know what collectivism (socialism and communism) is?
     
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  21. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    It isn't. Fascism and socialism are both variants of authoritarianism and/or totalitarianism, only the rhetoric differs and they are both nothing more than tyranny

    This reminds me of the endless arguments over whether Hitler or Stalin was worse
     
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  22. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    I always answer Captain America. Equipped with matchless strength and fighting ability as well as an Adamantium shield CA could have easily fought his way into the Reichschallery, knocked Hitler cold with a sock to the jaw and returned him to Washington DC for his fair trial and death by the Electric Chair. Instead he let the war drag on because he owned stock in Ford Tanks
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ah yes. Freedom from government dictates is now a form of fascism. Liberal logic 101.
     
  24. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Trumpism is bigotry enshrined as the law of the land and cruelty seen as justice. It is naked elitism and plutocracy combined with what seems an utter hatred of the natural world. Trumpism doesn't seek freedom from government as much as freedom from consequences
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  25. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, you mean the laws congress passed.
     

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