When delay becomes denial

Can you deny that the rise in sea level should be exponential since the start of coming out of the ice age, with various factors modulating the effect?

I hope you aren't suggesting that CO2 is the only factor when we know soot on ice has a dramatic effect. Then isn't about half the rise also attributed to thermal expansion?

 

So you are now going to blame 20,000 years of consistent sea level rise on CO2 increases just in the past 150 years or so? Seems a bit extreme....but okay. Are you really surprised that when the glaciers covering Manhattan and most of Canada melted (because of...coal fired power plants and cars...???) that they raised the sea levels, and it has been going on EVER since?

 

Understand....Ice Ages and Warming Trends are Cyclical Events....and THAT is why Climatologists are so concerned.

The only things in the past that triggered unscheduled Ice Ages or Warming Trends were things like Mass Volcanic Eruptions, Long Term Solar unexpected Solar Activity....Asteroid or Comet Impacts...etc.

None of that is going on and planetary Temps should NOT be warming right now and thus mealting Polar and Greenaland Ice.

We have 100,000 years of Ice Core data that allows us to know when warming trends and ice ages and events such as Volcanic Activity, Asteroid Impact...etc...have happened within those 100,000 years.

In 100,000 years right now we have the highest levels of CO2 and CH4 in PPM in our Atmosphere.

This causes the warm up....that melts the ice....and if too much fresh water ice melts and stalls ocean currents....we PLUNGE....very quickly into an ICE AGE.

AboveAlpha

 

I do understand they have a rather long cyclical trend.

How do you know it's the "only thing?" Are you immortal?

Are you denying the possibility that increased solar levels since 1713 have not raised the average ocean temperatures and that soot from Asia is not contributing to the polar ice melt, exposing more ocean to adsorb 90% of the shortwave instead of reflecting 90% of it?

It it the difinative reason? How many other variables are there?

So?

What if it's coincidence to warming, or some of it even caused by warming?

You do know don't you that if the temperatures remained stable, and ocean equalization of CO2 was fast rather than about 1000 years, that we would only see a 2 ppm to 3 ppm increase in the atmosphere, right?

And the empirical evidence is how accurate and how certain? Let me remind you of something. Facts make statistics. Statistics do not make facts.

 

Stats and facts....Google CDIAC.....U.S. Dept. of Energy....Office of Science....Oak Ridge National Laboratories

This is the data the U.S. Military uses.

Same nice people that also make Weapons Grade Nuclear Fuel for the U.S. Thermonuclear Force and Reactors.

AboveAlpha

 

And do you have definitive cause to effect?

 

Actually they have been higher in 100,000, not higher in 12,000. During the Eemian Greenland had melted more than it has now and temps were higher. It ain't unusual.

 

The truth is we honestly dont know. Studies that make such claims always error bars larger than the signal they claim to show. The uncertainty however never makes its way into the press release.

 

Modeling noise. Great fun. Not particularly useful.

 

That is one of the complaints from scientists, that the news gives only a headline without any background. It is good news when you can scare someone.

 

Go to that site.

Notice current PPM of CO2 and CH4 in the atmosphere has NEVER been this high in 100,000 years INCLUDING DURING WARMING TRENDS.

CO2 increase causes oceans and permafrost and Arctic Lakes to warm causing Gel Form CH4 to turn into CH4 Gas and CH4 Gas holds in heat at 71 times greater than CO2.

This causes even greater rise in temp. increase causing melting of Polar and Greenland Ice which is FRESH WATER.

If too much fresh water which is lighter than salt water melts into the oceans it stalls the Heat Transfer Current System such as the Gulf Stream which brings warm Gulf of Mexico sea water up North and this is why even though the U.K. is at a closer Lattitude to the North Pole than Massachusetts....Mass. is much colder as that Warm Water from the Gulf Stream keeps G.B. warm relatively.

If too much fresh water is melted into the system and the system stalls....IMMEDIATE ICE AGE.

This has happened before due to massive Volcanic Activity which sent massive amounts of CO2 Gas but not much in the way of airborne particulates....result was Wolly Mammoths FROZEN SOLID IN SECONDS AS WE FOUND THEM WITH GREEN GRASS AND FLOWERS IN THEIR MOUTHS AND STOMACHS!!

AboveAlpha

 

Interesting discussion on this wikipedia site of thermohaline circulation, particularly the Gulf Stream and the effects of the arctic fresh water melt. They seem to think at worst that the cold snap resulting would be limited to the North Atlantic and Europe. They appear to think the present arctic fresh water melt does not rate as much of a game changer based on pretty extensive studies showing the Gulf Stream inclined to keep going, even if somewhat modified.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shutdown_of_thermohaline_circulation

 

I am talking about the RATE of rising sea levels as well as CO2 and CH4 in PPM in our Atmosphere have NEVER been this high in 100,000 years.

Such a high level of CO2 and CH4 is causing the highest rate of increase in sea levels and they will surpass any previous sea ice melt in the 100,000 year period.

AboveAlpha

 

There is no indication that the rate of sea level rise has increased, in fact it has slowed down. We don't really know for sure if CO2 never spiked before since proxy records may not show spikes but no one doubts that man is contributing to this rise. Again, seas were much higher during the last interglacial.

 

There is a TIPPING POINT....at which the Oceans multiple Heat transfer current system has and we KNOW this tipping point exists as an unprecidented IMMEDIATE DEEP FREEZE has been proven to have happened in the past.

It would not be as fast as that Movie...the Day After Tommorrow as far as the time it takes to get to such a tipping point but once that tipping point actually TIPS.....the result is an Ice Age occuring so fast in some areas that animals feeding in spring or summer Northern areas FROZE SOLID IN SECONDS.

For an animal as large as a Wolly Mammoth to freeze instantly....Temps would have to drop over 120 Degrees F.in SECONDS.

I am not sure how that happened but it did.

AboveAlpha

 

When sea levels rise it is indicated in Ice Core data as the higher the ocean levels the greater the amount of evaporation and the stronger the storms and the greater the amount of SNOW.

Ice Core Data can tell us this.

Just go to the CDIAC website....it is really the only viable website on the internet as either some sites are too biased toward Global Warming or too biased against it.

This site is run by the absolute best Climatologists, Physicists and Scientists on Planet Earth as it is a part of the U.S. Dept. of Energy.

It is also based out of Oak Ridge National Laboratories at it's Office of Science.

And...it is the only data the U.S. Military and U.S. Military Climate Change Contingency Planners trust to use specific data.

There are Island Nations the U.S. Navy is evacuating RIGHT NOW....and some of those Islands there have been people living there for over 30,000 to 50,000 years or more and there never was in the past an evacuation as Ocean Sea Levels have now made these Island Nations uninhabitable.

AboveAlpha

 

Actually the sea level has not made them uninhabitable, the fear has.

 

No....Ocean Water completely flooding those islands and the salt water making farm land sterile and islands being completely submerged by ocean water during even moderate storms never mind major one's are the reason they are becoming or are now uninhabitable.

LINK...http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/kiribati-a-nation-going-under/590/

LINK...http://www.businessinsider.com/sea-level-rise-cause-island-evacuation-2012-10

LINK...http://www.climateimc.org/en/breaking-news/2006/09/29/carterets-be-evacuated-due-rising-sea-level

These reports were from YEARS AGO!!!

Some Islands have already been evacuated and many more are being evacuated.

AboveAlpha

 

Pacific islands growing, not sinking

Here is a graph of sea level in the area.



According to the Kiribati Government Website here, Kiribati is composed of 32 atolls and one raised coral island, dispersed over 3,500,000 square kilometres, (1,351,000 square miles) straddling the equator, and bordering the International Date Line to the east. Total land area is 811 Sq km; this includes three island groups – Gilbert Islands, Line Islands, Phoenix Islands. 21 of the 33 islands are inhabited. The population is [was] 112,850 (July 2009 est.).

You can't blame them for taking advantage of the cash given out for GW to locate to better digs, can you?

 

As usual you seem to have blown it. It appears the sea is not only rising but the slow curve upward shows that rise is accelerating.

 

Doncha just love (Un)SkepticalScience cartoonists CAGW advocacy blog?

There is simply nothing in the NOAA long duration mean sea level trend data records that supports claims that man made CO2 emissions are accelerating sea level rise at U.S. locations. Without belaboring the point the same holds true for locations worldwide as demonstrated by the latest NOAA global wide mean sea level trend data.

 

Your graphs are localized and the sea levels appear to be derived from the effect of currents and tides for that region. Mine refers to the entire world sea level. You want NOAA? I'll give you NOAA.

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sealevel.html

 

Like I thought. "May" is the key word. The records show otherwise. This is one of the problems when you don't understand what you are reading, that is, taking conjecture as fact.

 

When you are a denialist, grabbing for any wiggle room you can is your MO. The NOAA quote is consistent with my graph and gives the lie to yours as a pretend indicator of world sea level. But I'll give you credit, your weaseling suggests you already know that.

 

When you are a warmist, grabbing any tenuous statement as fact is your MO. The NOAA quote is not consistent with any graph of sea level rise and gives lie to the warmist alarmist fantasy. I will give you credit for ignoring actual records.