When delay becomes denial

THIS IS FROM YOUR OWN PROVIDED LINK.

Islands in Tuvalu, Kiribati and the Federated States of Micronesia are among those which have grown, largely due to coral debris, land reclamation and sediment.

THIS ARTICLE WAS FROM 2010 MORE THAN 4 YEARS AGO!!!

Of course Atolls will grow slowly over time as coral is a living thing but AREA OF ATOLLS has nothing to do with ELEVATION OF ATOLLS.

Hey....I can reclaim sand from the ocean floor and build an Island 100 miles in diameter but if the sea levels keep increasing in height it is STILL GOING TO FLOOD OVER!!

You have to READ what you are posting about.

AboveAlpha

 

That doesn't matter. It does not mean they are the cause of the temperatures. Coincidences happen. I have seen the numbers before. Don't think you are telling me anything new. I have been studying this for several years.

I will agree CO2 and CH4 are a part of global warming, but I will contend they are insignificant compared to solar and soot on ice.

Well, considering the spectral heating of CO2 doesn't penetrate past a few microns in depth of water, how can it be responsible for heating the ocean to the 700 meter depth? I will contend that the heating of the immediate surface in effectively zero as the added energy at the very surface causes more evaporation with the wind in play which leads to cooling instead of heating of the ocean surface. This latent heat is then carried over other parts of the ocean or land.

Places where we do have more natural CH4 being emitted due to warming is not necessarily due to CO2.

The specra of CO2 is effectively refracted away from ice. at least 80% of it until soot forms. This soot then absorbs more heat from all spectra, causing the ice to melt faster than otherwise. Soot is primary in this melting.

Still, a concern that is from the melting of ice, which is not automatically due to CO2. If it was, we would have similar issues with the shelves around Antarctica, where we only see issues at west Antarctica due to the ring of fire. The east is relatively stable.

I disagree it will cause an ice age. Seems like a built in scare by the alarmists for when warning doesn't occur. If anything, the latitude where the surface waters move deep will be less. Maybe there is such a cyclical element for growing and retreating Arctic ice?

Seconds? I think not. How about getting real if you wish to be believable. More likely stuck in some snow storm then covered them in minutes, but freezing them would take hours after they stopped producing heat.

Please stop being an alarmist.

 

The rate of the sea level rise would have been at its greatest somewhere before 8,000 years ago. Most certainly not today.

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I find that very amusing.

Link please.

 

Excuse me as I pick my self off the floor laughing from this SWAG conjecture.

Who was there to verify this claim?

Ice core data for CO2 levels is too inaccurate. there are problems with the certainty of CO2 gas levels as compressed bubble will outgas after forming, and the average length between samples during the highest CO2 timeframe is 651 years. A 50 year period of 400+ ppm could go unnoticed, easily. The average time between samples for the second highest CO2 timeframe is 553 years.

Have you ever actually took a critical look at the ice core data, or are you just listening to the prophets of the CO2 dogma?

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And in past times, the probably ate fish instead of grown foods.

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Does a graph ending at 2006 mean it hasn't slowed down by 2014?

 

Then you should have recognized that the evacuation of these 'atolls' is just more alarmist bunk. Kiribati is composed of 32 atolls and one raised coral island, dispersed over 3,500,000 square kilometres.

 

For long term islands, I do know the Hawaiian islands effectively sink after the hotspot moves. Some regional sea level changes are not the sea changing, but the land. The Emperor seamount chain is 3,600 miles long, made from a single hotspot, and theory has it the entire chain has been sinking since the hotspot moved relative to the plate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian–Emperor_seamount_chain

 

Yes, it is called land subsistence. The land is always moving. The oceans also slosh around like water in a bowl that effects sea level.

 

Yep, I probably should have attached it to AboveAlpha's post. I wonder if he realizes this.

 

I am not an alarmist.

I am a REALIST!

When entire Island Nations are being evacuated by the U.S. Navy and there has been people living on them for 35,000 to 50,000 years continuously without ever having to evacuate the island....WE HAVE A PROBLEM.

You are not familiar with science or physics or chemistry at all I see yet you CONTEND that although you have no Degrees or Doctorates or even an ASSOCIATED DEGREE in Climatology or Physics or Chemisty....THAT YOU KNOW BETTER!!!! LOL!!!!

Take the time to Google the WOLLY MAMMOTHS they dug up in Siberia and Canada which still had PERFECTLY PRESERVED FROZEN GREEN GRASSES PLANTS AND FLOWERS IN THEIR MOUTHS AND STOMACHS!!!

These animals literally were FLASH FROZEN as well Temps. dropped to low so quickly that even their stomach acids did not have time to completely wilt parts of flowers in them.

This is SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN that for that to happen Temps. would have had to drop over 140 Degees F. in a matter of SECONDS in order to preserve the eated green grass and flowers.

If you argued this issue in a logical and science based manner I would continue to debate you but it is OBVIOUS your driven by POLITICS and not SCIENCE.

AboveAlpha

 

The Tectonic Plates are being SUBDUCTED....this is known as SUBDUCTION as the Pacific Plate is subducted under the North American Plate....but this is specific to creation of Islands via Volcanic Activity....NOT though growth of Coral Reefs which Attols really are or sand recalmation from the ocean floor which is what the article you presented was talking about.

AboveAlpha

 

Whatever.

Maybe you should do the thermal calculations sometime as to how long it would take to freeze something that large, that fast.

Your problem is you keep calling is "flash freezing." I'm not denying the mammoth was frozen quickly, just how quick you are implying with incorrect terminology.

 

OK....how about FREEZING A MULTI-TON ANIMAL IN LESS THAN A MINUTE!? LOL!!!

This happened and if you Googled it you KNOW it happened.

Since these Mammoths still had unbleamished by stomach acid FLOWERS and GRASSES in their mouths and stomachs....they only way this could have happened is for temps. to drop insanely rapidly most likely cause a Atmospheric Vortex strethching from the ground to the highest levels of atmosphere at the edge of space.

An ENORMOUS STORM would be necessary to create this and although not completely scientifically accurate that movie...Day After Tomorrow demonstrates such storms.

It happened....thus it will happen again.

AboveAlpha

 

WTF?

A fraction of a ton, not multiple. Why do you make things up?

Freezing would not occur in seconds like you claimed. Not less than a minute either. Several minutes? Maybe.

Flash freeze... LOL... LOL... LOL...

 

A WOOLLY MAMMOTH

The woolly mammoth was roughly the same size as modern African elephants. Males reached shoulder heights between 2.7 and 3.4 m (9 and 11 ft) and weighed up to 6 tonnes (6.6 tons).

LINK....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolly_mammoth

I could go to a Fourth Grade Classroom and ask a bunch of KIDS whether they thought a Woolly Mammoth that is about the same mass as an Elephant....weighed more or less than 1/2 a Ton and the KIDS would be smart enought to say MORE!!! LOL!!!

I don't know what is funnier.

The fact you didn't know or the fact you posted....and I quote..."Why do you make things up?...End Quote Planer......to me! LOLOLOLOL!!!!!

I guess you went and stepped in Mammoth Pie!!!

Sort of a much larger version of COW PIE!!! LOL!

AboveAlpha

 

An atmospheric vortex? WTF give me some of what he is smoking. Alpha is arguing that sone how the cold upper atmosphere crashed down to the surfaces in a swirling vortex and froze everything.

Damn that is one hell of an imagination.

Yeah alpha the very cold upper atmosphere where it meets space. Hate to break it to ou but the top of the atmosphere is significantly warmer than the surface.

Your imagination is running away.

 

Isn't this the one you are speaking of?

As for freezing, maybe you should consider this: https://answersingenesis.org/answers/books/frozen-in-time/were-siberian-mammoths-quick-frozen/

 

Well, when at that, let's say for example the coldest air from over the arctic area came in Currently, it's around -70 C, but I'll humor the idea during the ice age at -100 C. This would be about 173 K. Now the atmospheric pressure at this height (90 km) is about 0.002 hPa. When a gas is compressed, its heat density increases proportional to pressure. This 173 K would become rather hot, in the thousands of degrees. That's what makes these disaster story "cold fronts" so laughable. If there was no radiative or conductance losses, that 173 k x 50,000 would be very, very hot. The opposite as to why when compressed gasses come out of a pressure tank, they are so cold.

Now if we consider the air at 10 km being about 220 K, and use about 200 k for the ice age, than the atmospheric difference is only a factor of 5. That still brings the temperature with no heat loss to 1,000 k

A sudden pressure loss from a vortex would result in a lower temperature, but the heat conduction rate reduces as well, disproving such an idea.

 

You don't really think he understands any of this do you.

He extrapolated a simple knowledge of a polar vortex that he learned on wiki out to near infinitely to fit his own bias.

 

No, but maybe people will learn to understand what they are arguing instead of parroting unreliable blogs.

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No kidding.

I could use some about now.

 

That one was a BABY....also recovered were fully grown Mammoths in different areas in the Northern Siberia.

AboveAlpha

 

Well, it would be rare to find un-grown Mammoths.

 

LOL!! Funny.

AboveAlpha....George Carlin..."Really...has anyone every really seen a BIG SHRIMP?"

 

Well, you still haven't provided a link that supports your contention. I believe the baby was the best preserved of the four considered preserved.

How about the link I asked for supporting your contention?

 

The Mammoth died out in the “Middle Holocene”. Mostly about 10,000 to 4,000 years ago. (quotes from the wiki)

Until recently, it was generally assumed that the last woolly mammoths vanished from Europe and southern Siberia about 10,000 BC, but new findings show that some were still present there about 8,000 BC. Only slightly later, the woolly mammoths also disappeared from continental northern Siberia. A small population survived on St. Paul Island, Alaska, up until 3,750 BC, and the small mammoths of Wrangel Island survived until 1,650 BC.

Yet we find frozen mammoth meat as the permafrost melts. There are stories of natives and explorers finding frozen mammoths as the glaciers melted and retreated.

From the wiki:

There is an estimate of 150 million mammoth remains in Russia’s Siberian permafrost, which covers a vast sparsely inhabited area. Some of the remains are frozen complete, others in pieces of bone, tusk, tissue and wool, from less than a metre to 1 km below ground.

Recently an intact baby mammoth was extracted from intact permafrost.

In May 2007, the carcass of a one-month-old female woolly mammoth calf was discovered in a layer of permafrost near the Yuribei River in Russia, where it had been buried for 37,000 years.

This has two interesting facts about it, when it comes to “global warming”.

1) It is now warmer than it has been since those animals were frozen into the permafrost and / or covered in ice and snow. We have been warming since that point.

2) It was warmer then. (or they could not have gotten into the ice in the first place.)

These animals need a LOT of vegetation to live. They do not live on ice sheets. They live where their is enough green growth to support a herd of very massive animals. It was warmer, and it was greener.

LINK....http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/mammoth-meat/

AboveAlpha

 

And how does that make your point correct, and mine wrong?