When does a ZEF (zygote/embryo/fetus) become a person? WHY?

It still has no rights

 

I was responding to the fact that an embryo can remain viable outside the womb for a very long time. In fact it's possible that a frozen embryo can be older than the woman that it's implanted into.

If you don't kill the embryo, hopefully, one day he/she will have rights.

 

All true, but just like an apple seed, while an embryo certainly has the potential to be a human being, an apple seed isn't the same thing as an apple tree.

 

Yup, the moment it's born....


...and those frozen eggs need extraordinary care to survive...so they aren't "viable" in relation to abortion.

 

That's like comparing apples to embryos.

When are we human? Some think after we're born. Because an embryo doesn't have all of it's human parts yet, does that make it not human. It's still human complete with it's own sequence of human DNA. Genetic testing can be done on a single cell from an embryo.

 

More like apple seeds to embryos.

If you were my neighbor and I accidentally killed an apple tree in your yard, would you be satisfied if I handed you an apple seed and called it equal?

 

I'll give you the apple seeds to embryos. However your argument is a weak analogy.

 

Why is it weak? Is a human embryo human? Of course, by definition. Is it a human being? No, it is not just like an apple seed is not an apple tree.

Which of these is the human, if any, and which are not?

 

A human ZEF is always human (adjective) ...but it is NOT A human (noun) as in "legal person" until birth.

 

And then it needs to be put in a woman's womb in order to develop into a fetus and then a baby that is viable outside the womb. No fertilized egg can grow into a viable being outside the womb. You people are stretching out for some kind of reality that isn't there and you are coming up empty.

 

Although we are approaching the day of true "test-tube" babies with embryos fertilized, genetically manipulated and grown inside an artificial womb. Even so, the embryo has to grow into a fetus and, at some point, it becomes a human being....or super-soldier, super-worker, super-sex doll, etc.

 

"approaching" It is science fiction. Truly: science fiction. Not anywhere near. And, in fact, the idea is as bad as cloning. We don't know if the being that may come out of such a procedure will be healthy and whole, physically and mentally. We don't know what kind of results we will get. It is still science fiction: A Brave New World (the title is satiric BTW).

 

Fear not. It's already being done with fixing genetic defects in the womb and being able to handle younger and younger preemies.

But if it bothers you, you are free to protest outside OBGYNs and natal care facilities. "Don't save babies" would make an interesting sign.

 

I don't 'fear' anything because a fetus coming to term (being viable) outside the womb is not happening and not about to in the foreseable future. You are apparently being influenced by anti-abortion propaganda.

As far as handling earlier preemies: abortion generally takes place at 12 weeks. There is no way any 12 week fetus can live outside the womb: it is not even developed. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that 66 percent of legal abortions occur within the first eight weeks of gestation, and 92 percent are performed within the first 13 weeks

Women who have abortions because the fetus has serious genetic defects would be happy to not have the abortion if those defects can be fixed, btw. Why would you think they have the abortion otherwise? You really are cruel in your thinking. You think that women just have abortions for the hell of it?

Stop allowing yourself to be manipulated by propaganda. Women don't have abortions for pleasure or because it is somehow convenient. That's propaganda.

 

First, disagreed.

Second, I'm pro-choice. In fact, I favor abortions at cost, so there is not need to spread false statements about me.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/25/...uterus-lamb-sheep-birth-premie-preterm-infant

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/could-artificial-wombs-be-a-reality/
Ectogenesis, that is the gestation outside of a biological womb, sounds like science fiction. But one of the top stories of 2017 was the success of one group in making artificial wombs a reality—at least for lamb fetuses in later stages of their gestation.

The science is in large part motivated by the high, and steadily rising, number of babies born preterm or before 37 weeks of gestation. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, one in ten babies are born prematurely in the United States. According to the World Health Organization, that same statistic is true globally, and the United States is one of the ten countries with the highest number of preterm births (although not the highest rate). Premature births can be caused by infection, placenta problems, or genetic problems, but often the cause is not known.

Critically or extremely preterm babies, those born before 28 weeks of gestation, have survival rates that are highly dependent on income levels. In the United States, preterm births have been linked to 17% of infant deaths in recent years, while those babies that do survive have a high likelihood of major complications like cerebral palsy, breathing problems, vision problems, and developmental delays.

But what if babies born prematurely, instead of having to fight for life before they are fully equipped to do so, could be put into an artificial womb-like environment to complete their gestation?

 

Fine, IF the woman agrees and NO rights are lost for pregnant women...saving preemies for hundreds of thousands of dollars should never affect abortion rights ( human rights) in any way........

 

Read the previous provided link. Science advances, soon someone will grow a human in the lab.

None you are changing your position to accommodate the science as you learn it. That's exactly why Blackmun so disliked viability as a threshold..

 

Fine, IF the woman agrees and NO rights are lost for pregnant women...saving preemies for hundreds of thousands of dollars should never affect abortion rights ( human rights) in any way........

And, there is NO way that scientists can make human gestation go faster.

 

So lets see, a guy robs a 7-11 and kills the clerk. He is guilty of aborting the clerk in the 68th trimester.
EVERYTHING in that two cells is everything any one of us will ever be!!! We only grow larger, but the DNA is programed as a human being period. What else could it be. And women's rights? More than half the babies aborted are "gasp" women.
I think that if I have an "obligation" to risk my life for this country, women have an obligation to have the child, alive and well.

 

It's not an abortion after birth.

What sex a fetus is has nothing to do with a woman's right to abort it...that's just nonsense...

A fetus, whether female or male has no rights.

That's illogical nonsense, the two events aren't related...

 

We aren’t talking about caring for it, it is viable when it is an independent unit and capable of surviving outside the womb.
Is an acorn an oak tree?

 

Like an acorn is a developing tree except for the soil the earth provides. A ZEF has the POTENTIAL to become a child, the same way an acorn has the POTENTIAL to become a tree.
A woman is not a human incubator

 

You realize that when most abortions are performed the “baby” weighs about 1/10 of 1 ounce and has no neural connections

 

First, it's not a "baby". It's "human" but not a human being.

Second, yes.