"Who's gonna pay for Medicare for all?" is either stupid or disingenuous

What's NOT funny is thinking that if only you deny someone needed medial attention they will end up being happy, healthy and successful.

That's been tried for MILLENIA and has NEVER worked.

All that attitude has accomplished is human tragedy.

No other first world country has so little respect for the human condition of its citizens.

 

You cannot even find a single comparative rating of national healthcare systems that fit your ideological dogma? Not even one?

I'm not surprised.

Incidentally, while about twice as costly, the US is ahead of Sweden and Canada in access:

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org...day-appointment-when-needed-care-2016_updated
​

 

Wow, there you go again.

Denying healthcare is not and never has been a "lesson".

And, you clearly have NO knowledge of who it is that can't afford helathcare or insurance for healthcare.

 

That's not the intent or thought, and you know it. The question is who is paying the bills- and when people assume that there are no consequences because someone else always will, that situation never ends and they never become strong people. Every need is an emergency which you run to fix for them, and it just keeps on happening. Try helping someone be strong for a change instead of dependent- they will gripe at first, but eventually be grateful. Judgment is called for, not idiotic absolutism either way. Unless of course you think we should all be dependent on government and none of us be left to stand up at all. Then- there is no hope for you.

 

Private premiums are higher by ~ 3% to cover the uninsured who pay ~ 50% of their bills.

 

There were only ~ 13 million who can’t afford healthcare insurance premiums before ObamaCare. Now there are many more.

 

There you go again.

 

You think that denying someone healthcare is going to allow them to earn more money!!

But, that's been tried now for more than 100 years, and your record is ZERO.

The problem continues, because in the US it was never solved. We tried making insurance law such that for-profit corporations would be more motivated to cover a larger percent of our citizens. But, insurance companies don't have ANY other motivation to do so, as they are driven by profit - not by helping people who can't afford the gigantic costs of healthcare today.

Please remember that EVERY other first world country has a healthcare system that covers all their citizens. And, in all cases their citizens are paying LESS than we do. Many of their systes are working. Ours is FAILING.

DO NOT continue to propose systems that have been PROVEN to fail.

And, your idea that denying families needed healthcare is a "lesson" is nothing more than disgusting. It's really no better than walking into their homes and beating them for not earning more money.

 

I'm for Medicare for all. Anyone who pays into a program for 35 years deserves to have Medicare pay some part of their healthcare. Everyone should have that benefit.

 

You repeatedly make the case of those who's mantra is "I can't" so someone else must do for me. Maybe not regarding health care right now- but I'd bet you are on that wagon somewhere, and believe in it.
There is no line drawn by such thinking, no limit. If it works for healthcare, why not for free college, or better yet free income? Why deny anything to anybody? After all, the basic needs and entitlement of everybody now covers cell phones, tattoos and such in their own minds. The politicians and lawyers keep confirming that we are "entitled", so that the weak will vote for the free stuff they promise- and they will own more of your freedom. When and where do you stop living off that "someone else?"

I suspect that you lack the experience to know; that you just don't like the advice from people who have already been where you are going, because they must be stupid and you obviously know better.

Amazing how such people never realize that the only "someone else" is actually us- and that means them. If each person takes care of just ONE person, everybody is taken care of.
Kindness and a hand-up is something good people do by choice- When it's appropriate- and I've done a great deal of it. But no one is entitled to force me to do so, to make it my obligation to fix their problem. You are free to make that your life's work if you wish- but not to commit the fruits of other people's labor; only your own.

 

I'm not denying them anything. I'm just not willing to pay their way for them. Do you not understand the difference?
If you don't, message me now. I'm in dire need of a Lamborghini, and I'm being denied. You can help!

 

No one in the US is denying anyone healthcare.

Other first world countries cover people but ration healthcare.

In the US purchasing healthcare insurance is optional. Low income people have Medicaid and CHIP.

You are correct. ObamaCare has failed.

 

Suggesting people can't pay for healthcare because they don't have a good enough attitude is about as STUPID as one can possibly get.

We KNOW how many are below the poverty lilne. We KNOW they can't afford our for-profit healthcare system.

Your assumptions about me are hilarious.

What I'm saying is based on evidence. We KNOW what a for-profit insurance scheme can do - we've tried to make it work for DECADES. We also KNOW what other countries have accomplished in providing healthcare to all, while achieving that at a far lower total expenditure.

You just keep dodging with your "we should teach the poor slobs a lesson by denying them healthcare".

 

Our system absolutely does deny people healthcare. We don't deny emergency services. Beyond that, people can only get what they are capable of paying for.

Our healthcare system has been designed for those who are wealthy enough to pay huge sums.

But, that's not even the real argument here. Other countries are spending FAR less on healthcare, yet they are covering everyone!!

Why would you choose to spend MORE and cover FEWER? It just doesn't make sense.

 

Name some of these people.

We have Medicaid.

Those countries are not treating everyone.

The spending is done by consumers. Everyone has access to our system.

 

People do not have access when they are priced out of the market.

And, you're dodging my question.

Why would you want to pay more and cover fewer (as opposed to working systems that cover all and have far lower total expendiure, while maintaining quality).

 

Don't be upset because you cannot find a single ranking of national health plans that places the inefficient, inadequate, and overpriced system if the US anywhere near the top.

 

There has never been a way to teach anybody anything until they are ready to learn- thus, you won't believe anything you don't already agree with.
However- when you find yourself in a place where there is not other choice, you will learn- sink or swim.

You probably don't invest in anything, but I do. I can check to see how well the insurance companies are doing easy, their corporate financial records are there for anyone to see. The people who choose to see themselves as entitled victims invariably must have a perpetrator- those they can blame for what they don't have and all they have been cheated out of which they surely are entitled to. Insurance companies make money- they have to. But how much is too much? United Health Care did the best of them all in the the first quarter of 2018. They made- brace yourself- a whopping 5.8% profit. Before taxes, of course. Apple;'s gross profit was 38.6%. So- who is really picking your pocket, your cell phone supplier or your health insurance provider?

Of course I realize that if those dirty bastards in the insurance companies had any morals at all, they would pay all the medical bills for all of us, free. After all, we are "entitled".
Lacking an understanding of business, people usually think like they always think, and they love to blame that notorious "somebody else" for the lack of all those entitlements they are getting cheated out of.

There's no question that we need health care. There are answers to why it's so un-affordable, but the pig headed are too stubborn to consider facts that might require them to change the way they think- and the fact that nothing changes as a result of what they try makes no difference, because by god they are sure they right. It's not a matter of hating people or being cruel or wanting to deny, it's a matter of finding what real causes are and what you can really do about them. Ever try to save a drug addict? Give that a shot, see how much money, time, pain and frustration you waste before you stop supporting a person who has no intention of doing for themselves. If and when they realize that absolutely nobody is going to do it for them- after the desperation becomes unbearable- they have a chance. Up until that time they are just another OD waiting to happen. People get addicted to living off the system. Not all in need are doing that- but a large number are, and you enable those people. You do not help them get better- you simply postpone the crisis, just as helping a drug addict does. There are people that we need to help- and we do. They are not the problem. They also number far less than those who are the problem. Our systems and people lack the judgment and will to help when it works- and refuse to when it's necessary.

Come back in 50 years or so when you have had a little more real-life experience.

 

I thought it was much higher that that I would have guessed about 5-10 percent. Right now they are 35 million uninsured so that is 10% of the population. They use 1/2 of the services insured do and if private insures are only paying 3% I guess we as taxpayers are paying the great majority. All I hear about is hospitals complaining about servicing the uninsured as a drain.

 

You are dodging mine. Name some of these people who have no access to healthcare or health insurance.

 

There are only ~ 10 million who claim they cannot afford health insurance. The remainder elect not to purchase health insurance or are eligible for government programs that they are not enrolled in.

 

I've provided that to you upthread. But you continue to claim that the US healthcare system is one of the worst among developed countries. That's ridiculous.

 

You haven't even STARTED to defend yourself against the issues of your total BS about "lessons", our last decades of failure in attempts to get insurance companies to do what we want, and the FACT that MANY other countries are putting us to shame by treating their citizens and figuring out how to do it more economically than we do, while maintaining quality.

And, I am retired with major income from investments.

Your idea that I'm rooting to grab money is right down the alley of your TOTAL failure. YOU think that's what it's about!!!

But, that is just more of how YOU think, and I happen to see that as insulting and disgusting.

 

We are FAR more expensive than EVERY other first world country and THEY cover their citizens while we score at the bottom of that list.

We're a RICH country that ignores its poor when they get sick - disgusting.

 

This is more of your "kick them when they're down" logic that has NEVER worked and NEVER will work.

And, you STILL have said NOTHING about the fact that numerous other first world nations are doing FAR better than we are on both expenditure and distribution while maintaining high quality.

All you've expressed is a desire to punish those who can't afford the ludicrously high costs of our for-profit system.