"Who's gonna pay for Medicare for all?" is either stupid or disingenuous

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by 3link, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. 3link

    3link Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm sick and tired of republicans asking "who is gonna pay for Medicare for all" when the answer is obvious to all those with two brain cells to rub together. The vast majority of it will be paid for by the dollars that you (or your employer) currently spend on private health care insurance. Republicans have consistently failed to take that money into consideration. They just cite what it would cost to pay for Medicare for all without offsetting that amount by the money that Americans currently pay for private health coverage. This is why the question "Why is going to pay for Medicare for all" is either incredibly dumb or just disingenuous. If I had to choose I'd say its more likely just dumb.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  2. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    Why would we want to pay into medicare for all if our private health insurance plans are better?

    but I know where you're coming from. You would have to pull another obamacare and force people to pay so that you can live out your socialist fantasies. Since that's not going to happen, it's all quite moot. You had your chance with obamacare, and blew it. You'll just have to do it at the state level.

    so sorry.
     
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  3. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    I have no degree in Economics, but this is the issue where Liberals are right 100%.

    All Humans are Created Equal.

    People with Disability should not be left to die from lack of Medical Care.
     
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  4. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Because they aren't

    We have a two tier system. If I want a toe nail trim tomorrow I will go private if however I want ICU for an MVA I want public all the way.

    I live and work in a very rural and remote part of Aus and we will fly you free of charge to a tertiary hospital if you need higher care. No hunting for a hospital that will take your plan just "you need it you get it"
     
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  5. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    People with disabilities that keep them from being able to work are eligible for social security. That comes with medicaid.
     
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  6. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well- you can choose to believe anything, and ignore the relative issues.
    "All" means including people who currently are not insured. It means including people that can't pay anything at all. It probably means a system rife with the kind of medicare fraud that we already have, but on a much larger scale. Bottom line, it may well be much more expensive.

    There is no question as to who will pay, because it's you- the taxpayer. The question relates more to who is going to suck up the excess over what a person's current costs are. That answer too, is- taxpayers; all of us. When such a system is legislated to apply to everyone- you stick everyone with an expense some neither want nor need, in order to subsidize the rest. That is not taxation, it is re-appropriation of wealth without consent.

    There is no sugar daddy, no free money- there is only earned money. Invariably those who endorse entitlements and similar programs want to believe their is a magic somebody else- who they like to believe is always unjustly rich, got it unfairly, cheated them out of their share, etc- and so it's rational to make them pay.

    What we drastically need is to understand why medical care in the US- hospital, surgery, drugs- cost so much more that they do in other countries with commensurate quality care. You can get a hip replacement done in Spain, including the airfare and hotels needed, for about the same as your deductible would be in the USA. That is the real problem.
     
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  7. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    ...and they aren't and don't... in the U.S. anyway. They are covered by the abused SS Disability system and the equally abused Medicaid system.

    Am half in the bag for socialized medicine in the U.S. Watching the tens of millions of spoiled U.S. hypochondriacs, 80-90% of them female, howl when their access to 5-10 different doctors for this or that "bad hair day" is reduced to a "take a number" long wait might just be worth the extra socialism.

    ...with a few reasonable restrictions of course.

    1. Obesity related diseases are first treated with diet and exercise regimens before government coverage becomes available. Fail to complete those successfully and maintain a reasonable state of moderate overweight? all related care (essentially ALL care) remains out of pocket or privately insured. Relapse on the Cheetos and pack the 50-100 pounds back on? Back to square one.
    2. Drug addicts, including alcohol and tobacco, are denied coverage until they kick their various habits (with no aid whatsoever from the government) and are proven clean for X time period, with periodic, random testing at facilities staffed by nurses or PAs.
    3. Only full U.S. citizens are covered, and birthright citizenship is fully repealed. Not green cards, not work Visas, full U.S. citizens. All others pay out of pocket or obtain alien insurance policies. Hospitals and doctors will be prohibited by law from performing pro bono on such persons other than prepaid by private charity.
    4. Certain very expensive procedures, such as CABG and organ transplants, as a couple of -many- examples possible, are age capped at 75 or preferably even lower.
    5. -0- costs of socialized medicine are to be borne by employers.
    6. Across the board, material, 50 state tort reform mandated including all manner of damages caps, liability floors, exemption baskets, and far stricter standards and sanctions on frivolous claims, including especially product and physician liability.
    7. Massive rework of the entire SNAP program including restriction to a short list of healthy staples and related foods purchasable with them. Sale or abuse of one's benefits? Instant felony with mandatory jail time.


    How's that for a start, OP? Surely you will agree with all those and we can proceed right to the utopia of socialized medicine! Sound good?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  8. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    It's rather easy to find out why this is. Hospitals have to make up the difference between what they get from government welfare patients, and all those people with nothing at all but gun and knife wounds who wander into the emergency room or the illegal alien women who can't speak a lick of English and want to plop another third world baby onto the welfare rolls.

    It doesn't cost them anything at all, but it sure costs the patients who actually pay for their healthcare.

    So these people who want open borders, sanctuary cities, and a red carpet laid out for those caravans heading to their cities are complaining about expensive medical care? Their remedy is to make everybody pay for their generosity.

    Sorry lads, but no.
     
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  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    So, why does nearly every other industrialised nation on the planet have free medical care at a fraction of the cost of America?

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    So a huge increase in taxes. How much are you ready to pay? And you don't seem to understand. I paid into Medicare all my life WITHOUT receiving a benefit until I hit 65. When people start turning 65 and they no longer work how is their Medicare going to be paid for when now everyone who is younger now is paying for their own current Medicare? And now of course you are putting younger people who don't work and pay into it on it so who is going to pay for them? Your post has a much depth to it as Cortez's "just pay for it". Medicare will be dead if we go to this system, it will no longer exist so let's just stop calling it Medicare for all and admit it will be an entirely new single payer healthcare system and we will all be at the mercy of the government.
     
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  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    No an increase in take home pay
     
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  12. Guess Who

    Guess Who Well-Known Member

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    Question , how will doctors be paid under a government type health care system?
    I like my doctors rich, very relaxed and happy. But in past 40 years lib lawyers have sued them into low wage poverty so now we have third world doctors caring for us. Which some are great and a couple I really liked. But soem are nto so good as Trump would say.:D
     
  13. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member

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    Okay....take what you pay for health insurance right now. Cut it in half and say its taxes for Medicaid coverage.
     
  14. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Donor

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    We here in the US really don't care what you have. We will choose our healthcare path and call you when it is in place. I spent all weekend with a Brit who complained for hours about long waits , (20 months for a knee) and I have really figured out, If I thought their "free healthcare" was so great I would move there. His tax rate of 40% before he saw a dime did not count the number of other taxes they pay for goods and services. Ith largest healthcare problem the Brits have is Medical Tourism from eastern bloc countries such as Romania. Along with their "free healthcare comes the gangs and crimes. I will let you Google that just for fun.
     
  15. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but don't underestimate the parrot factor.

    Some are told what nonsense to believe by arbitrary authority figures, and are then incapable of embracing reality.
     
  16. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    But...

    ...Venezuela!!!!!!!!

    :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
     
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  17. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying Straya is...

    ...Venezuela!!!!!!!

    :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
     
  18. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    VENEZUELA!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
     
  19. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    Venezuela? :eek:
     
  20. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    Venez...

    ...uela? :(
     
  21. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    You can do the math.
    A 65 year old on Medicare costs about $6500 to insure. Less than 65 is cheaper.
    We are spending $3.5 trillion now. Looks like a big stimulus to me.
     
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  22. Guess Who

    Guess Who Well-Known Member

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    Your signature is not only false but ignorant too. Don't worry soon you will be in a hispanic nation and see how that works out for you. If you want to know google what most lations think of other minorities.
    No more black multimillionaire athletes or movie stars so no more money to buy " domestic terrorist " for wives. I think blacks will be trading places with latinos in the fields since your already highly out numbered by latinos now.
    You should have stuck with your fellow Americans who are not radicals and saved your nation.
    Everyone is against and hates the white people but like their nations . Go ahead and destroy the best thing that ever happened to any of us.
     
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  23. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I like how your mind works.
     
  24. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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  25. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    So, it's gonna cost even more than what we already pay. Plus, they're gonna pay for it out of taxes so those who earn more will pay more, for the same insurance as those who earn less.

    Pay for your own damn healthcare
     
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