Why are Religions Legal?

If a person must lie to themselves to hold the belief, then should it be legal?

From 'no false witness' to no misleading of another based on a selfish choice, both are wrong to do within most every society.

How is it that religious beliefs are legal, if they each have misleading information and lies?

 

The same reason that the myth that "without guns there would be no shootings", or that "Glenn Beck inspired the Tucson shooter" is legal.

 

I've always thought that it would be cool if each religion was allowed to enforce its rules and laws against its adherents. Like, if you're a Christian, and you do something against the Bible, you will be punished the way the Bible says you should be punished. You will be given the option of denying the religion before the punishment. I wonder how many people would still be religious if that was the situation.

 

Lying is not illegal in most places. In the U.S. it is only illegal to lie to law enforcement officers and courts of law. Well congress too but congress outlies everyone else to it a nonsensical law. Religious people only lie to themselves in your opinion because they don't share your view. They would think you lie to yourself in order not to believe. It isn't exaclty rocket science.

 

But it is a little more complex than you described. Religious people often tell blatant lies that are demonstrably false, often within the confines of their own expressed theology. Suggesting that a person is "lying to himself" is just rhetorical nonsense.

 

Why are UFO Clubs, the Psychic Friends Network or the Flat Earth Society legal? For the simple fact that we don't have the right to regulate people's beliefs, only their actions. This is what the First Amendment is all about which is why I get so angry when Atheists say crap like this. It is bad enough to have to defend the First Amendment from Theists who want to force us to follow their beliefs, but then to turn right around and do the exact same thing to them, it is utter hypocrisy. I find it extremely arrogant and ignorant for someone to believe that their world view is the only correct one and all others are wrong.

I'm going to stop here for a moment to make some clarifications. When I talk about an Atheist's beliefs, I am in no way suggesting that they are some kind of religion (we've had enough threads on that lately). What I'm talking about is their world view. How they see the universe. You see, there is really only two ways to see the universe. One, that everything is in the universe can be explained naturally without any supernatural agency involved, or two, that the universe can only be explained by the existence of a supernatural agency. That's it. Everything else is just detail.

Now, do you think for one moment that outlawing religion will make it go away? Christianity was once illegal. Did it make it go away? Even with the threat of torture and/or death, it didn't stop it. Hell, it ended up taking over the society that had made it illegal.

So it makes no sense to make religion illegal except maybe retribution for some past hurt that was inflicted upon you by a religion.

 

Perhaps your attention should be more focused on why a group such as NAMBLA is legal.

Same with KKK and similar bigoted groups like that.

Groups who harm society more than somebody who prays to God in a Mosque/Church/Synagogue/etc.

 

some religions in this country are illegal unless your the right race of course.. the peyote religion as an example

if you want to kill a religion, make it illegal to share your religion with others


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Nobody "lies to themselves" to hold a belief. If you hold a belief, that's what you believe. If you need to "lie to yourself", you don't really hold the belief. On the basis of belief alone though, that's a personal issue.

Because the law can't be practically to beliefs because it's impossible to know for sure what an individual actually believes and it isn't something the individual in is control of. The law can be applied to actions taken as a result of a belief but that should be entirely based on the nature of the action, regardless of the belief behind it.

 

if you know a claim is a fib and yet still hold the belief as being a 'truth', then it is a personal issue; lying to the self.

Each are in 'control' of themselves and to suggest otherwise is another 'lie to the self'.

Likewise, the 'law' is not subjective to a belief but of personal comprehension as well, self awareness of doing it, and causing the action to continue to exist. Basically, if you know a claim is a lie, and yet impose to another, you cause a 'loss to the common' (all of us/existence itself). Because it is a 'false witness'.

You can restate someone elses opinion, but NO ONE can claim it is 'truth' unless it can be sustained in fact.

bull....

if you believe you can kill, then ask for forgiveness and it just be OK, you are lying to yourself.

If you tell a child that god will forgive him for killing another as long as he asked for forgiveness, from god; another LIE!

ie.... no one can impose a 'lie' to another, by choice and it not be an actual 'loss to the common' (bad unto existence).

and the way to measure any of the claims above is, "how would you expect to be treated?" If you found out that what is most important about comprehending life, death, morals and empathy are incorrectly grounded, would it just ruin your whole day.

Try sitting in my spot. When the sheet hits the fan, many will bring their dying children and ask for the miracle and because of liars, i get to tell them 'magic aint an option'.

So pain will be imposed to the meak because liars have lied to people for so long

 

But alone not a matter for the law. We couldn't create a crime of "Believing something you know isn't true" for all sorts of reasons.

Anyway, there is no reason to assume people with religious beliefs are "lying to themselves", even if you think their beliefs are "obviously" wrong.

We can't control our beliefs by definition. You can't just decide "Today I'll believe in fairies". You can influence your beliefs by the sources of information you seek out but you can't force a specific change.

Yes, but it wouldn't be illegal unless you actually tried to act on it.

And the act of telling the child could be a crime (it'd certainly be immoral).

I think that depends on the nature of the "imposition". You can't force someone to believe something (whether you truly believe it or not), though you can try to convince them. As long as that person has freedom of choice though, they can seek out other information and reach an independent conclusion and/or belief position.

Nothing you've written here comes close to justifying the concept of making religion illegal of course (let alone addressing the practicalities).

 

the crime is not just measured by others but of the 'self'. Each know when they break 'the law'.

fine points.

as it is the elder, the wise, the leaders, the parents, the teachers etc.... that must eventually share the truth. "there ain no such thing as magic and you'll learn to accept it, over time"

the crime is the false path, taught, that the venue even exists.

exactly. Do not mislead the next generation to follow the BS that mislead you and yu had to find out later.

and most do

hence the majority of atheist are evolved theist.

the practicality is directly of the thread opener; the 'false witness' is wrong.

 

That's just silly word play. Everyone can have an opinion of what is right or wrong but the basic fact is that no justice system can make a belief illegal.

Morally, quite possibly, but that isn't what you asked. You asked why religion isn't illegal. Since not all religion involves anyone knowingly lying, not all religion causes harm and because it is practically impossible to determine an individuals true beliefs, it would not be right or possible to make religion illegal.

 

You missed the point.

I dont need to telll you when you are wrong, you already know it! (most cases)

Morally, lying is wrong.
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So technically, if a person must lie to another to teach them a "belief" that is false, is wrong.

how old were you when you realized the BS?

Do you follow a belief?

Is there a COMMAND that says no false witness?

 

Because religion in protected by the 1st amendment in the US.

We MUST follow our consitution, both the good and bad.

 

Well coming from a non-theist I say free thought should never be banned, no matter how ridiculous it may be.

I do question allowing such ridiculous free thought to make so much headway into our laws and politics however...

 

I disagree. I feel that most religious people truly hold their beliefs in general. It's impossible to know for sure of course.

Not necessarily (that's a huge philosophical topic) but for these purposes, lets take that as read.

Yes, but they have to know it's a lie. Your position requires the assumption that all religious people are knowing liars because you're implying that all religion should be illegal.

Anyway, teaching about an untrue belief isn't the end of the world. Indoctrination is a problem, but that's the case regardless of the nominal truth of the information.

I've never been religious but I can't know for certain that what I do believe isn't BS anyway. Neither can you.

 

sorry? What rules and laws against it's adherents. Please explain.

 

'false witness' is a common sense rule now a days.

and certain subject matters of beliefs are left as 'political' in the sense of taboo conversation. The reason is, some are measured by their integrity to reality, because of their 'religious' application. Tom Cruise. Ted Haggard.

or just believed. Being an honest joe means a person can say, 'i just dont know'.


But when a person 'witnesses' what is not true. They cause a 'loss to the common' by choice.

ie... Charles manson thought he was 'who'?

anyone can believe as they choose. Even offer an opinion but to stand on the box and claim crap of the 'only way' to be good and it not be true is misleading based on 'false witness'.

No matter how ya skin it, when in matters of life and death, it aint right to mislead a life. especially a conscious one because then can cause an almost unlimited amount of damage. look what happened to hitler.

cute

the quest for 'the hill' (under the Dome) will cause ww3 and you have no idea

a whole tree of beliefs is imposing to the world right now and in a nuclear age.

i dont claim to make them 'religions' illegal but to show the 'wrong' of accepting the deceptions as LIARS are allowed to impose upon human minds.

for example: if you found a school that brain washes children to believe they are to live for 'god', die for 'god' and be and absolute servant of 'god'........................ what is your first question?

not necessarily.

as that is a precept of being cool, capable of evolving!

 

How is it that political beliefs of Republican and Democrats are legal, if they each have misleading information and lies?

Freedom of speech.

 

Why is it a crime to lie to yourself, or anyone else, for that matter? Unless there is fraud such that it harms another, it is not a crime.

 

People can but some people honestly believe they do know.

Not entirely what you mean by "loss to the common" but I'll take the point. How do you know what you're "witnessing" right now is actually true?

We'll come back to that claim when you've chosen to believe that there is a miniature purple elephant balancing on top of your monitor holding an umbrella. We can't choose our beliefs by definition.

So why wasn't your question "Why is lying legal?" rather than focusing on religion (which may or may not involve lying)?

I've absolutly no idea what you're talking about here at all but it sounds a lot like religious preaching to me (note that religion don't require a god). Are you sure it's true?

So again, why your choice of topic title?

The same as it would be if I found a school brain washing children to believe anything. The problem is the brain washing, not the subject.





not necessarily.

as that is a precept of being cool, capable of evolving![/QUOTE]

 

No

No false witness is a religious belief. You can't take that away and then create a legal system, how could you?

 

because people have come to accept it.

it dont mean it is right.

in business, lying is almost normal (sales) and now the pursuit of 'leading' is a business in itself.

to me, if a leader misrepresents me, he is liable to me. If he/she misrepresents many, for a personal gain;.................. drap em thru the streets.

for example: if you were in prison and the rep (for your color) false witnessed a truth to the 'gang', they may not even find the body of that 'leader' once the 'wrong' is identified.


in matters of life and death, lying is not an option


but notice that holding a human being to moral standards of no lying and deception are, held to an absolute by human beings 'inside' versus 'outside' where the sob's can buy their 'freedom'?

Men, hold men to 'dont f'king lie to me' on a one to one basis, but when it comes to matters of business and politics, lying is an 'art'.



It aint "i" that lost the perspective, it is that people have come to accept the autrocities.



.

 

i figured at least one person could answer it 'honestly'.

in them 'words', i can see your point. As to the west, that is where the 'no false witness' identifier is pretty staple, commands.

BUTT,..... is it a pretty universal concept that most everyone expects (in important situations at least)?

it fits in the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"..so as a 'law' is can see an over encumbering application in matter of 'life and death'.

If the doc says, "we can cut some of the cancer out but if we can't get it all, chemo may be necessarily'. That's life and death conversation.

So is what i am saying!