Why does Government bother collecting "taxes"?

Discussion in 'Finance' started by Robert, May 14, 2016.

  1. Econ4Every1

    Econ4Every1 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so even if that's true, how would our government go from millions of dollars in the past to $20 trillion today? You can't borrow $20 trillion if you start out with tens of millions.
     
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  2. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand your question. Do you not know how the US has arrived at a $20 trillion money supply?
     
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  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I linked this discussion over to this exceptionally important poll:


    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...n-of-the-dollar.515180/page-3#post-1068061738


    Are tens of millions of Americans about to experience devaluation of the dollar?
     
  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe that there are several answers to this:

    1. Governments decided on policies that put hidden taxes on citizens in the form of inflation and devaluation of the national currency.

    2. Improvements in technology have made American workers much more productive than they were fifty - eighty years ago when the money supply seemed to be so much smaller.

    3. Roughly ninety percent of the citizens of the USA and Canada have greatly elevated EXPECTATIONS economically in comparison to our parents and grand parents.

    Here is an example of how a Canadian Prime Minister seemingly quite deliberately decided on a policy of inflation plus devaluation of the Canadian Dollar from 1974 until now.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...tt-trudeau-save-the-world-environment.424298/

    Did P. M. Pierre Elliott Trudeau save the world environment?

    ...
    .....
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  5. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    i think Government collects taxes for things such as Social Security Retirement benefits, Medical, Public road fixtures, Public Bridge fixes, public Street signs and street lights,... Everything Public as well as providing for those on Disability and Low Income..
     
  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now residents of the city of Calgary can pay half of various licenses in Calgary Dollars.


    http://calgarydollars.ca/

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  7. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    It's less silly to acknowledge a functional economic system - one that works for everyone - needs both Marxist and neoliberal (supply side ) elements.

    For example, if there are unused labour and physical resources, then governments ought to be able to print money to enable employment of those unused resources. Significant inflation will not result because there will be no excess draw on production beyond the economy's capabilities.

    Hence un/under-employment could be eliminated, without raising taxes. There are many socially useful services which could be funded in this manner, without a significant increased draw on scarce physical resources.

    Of course, this system would require global co-operation, to ensure a basic living wage for everyone, without problems of devaluation occurring between different currencies, in an environment of competitive free trade (without tariffs).

    Just saying.

    A sense of solidarity among humans (a Marxist concept) would enable the elimination of poverty, without raising taxes.
     
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  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is truly quite brilliant...........
    but could of course could be spun off in a relatively dark direction......

    May I quote you in full over into this discussion?

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/should-sorek-2-be-in-australia-or-california.530861/

    Should Sorek 2 be in Australia or California?
     
  9. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    By all means.

    Water desalination around the globe is one example of the infinite possibilities enabled by establishment of a financial central oversight mechanism, which would also assist in managing some of the negative effects of free market (and tariff-free) neoliberal competition (eg, the slow strangulation and descent into bankruptcy of Detroit).

    Re the "dark direction": I suppose the level of "human solidarity" I mentioned implies establishment of an international rules based system, eg, manifested by a UNSC without veto, and hence the elimination of war as a legitimate means of international dispute settlement. Any development of weapons would be carried out under the auspices of the SC, not individual nations.

    I presume looking at the possibilities available to our civilisation here on earth might help change entrenched attitudes....starting with basics, like acknowledging there is only one God, or one reality. (I wonder if theologians should be looking closer at this God of Abraham, perhaps derived from a Zoroastrian principle. It's time all places of worship were opened to everyone.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
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  10. BULGARICA

    BULGARICA Banned

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    If everyone stops paying taxes, I hope all of you have a private Ambulance lying around, waiting for you. And I hope your carbine is everywhere with you. And you have a couple of more than medium fire extinguishers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  11. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    99% of the reason for taxes is to control, and redistribute the wealth of the working class.
    To fully understand this, you must first understand that wealth is not money, it is labor.
    Labor is the engine which creates all wealth. Without it, no wealth can be created. In order to maximize the amount of wealth created, it is necessary to control the income of the working class to ensure they continue to work throughout their lifetime.

    As productivity increases due to technology, and workers create more wealth, it is necessary to increase taxes to keep them in a financial position where they need to continue to work. This is accomplished partly by taxes and partly by debt. Debt is encouraged by inducing inflation into the system, and constant media driven propaganda designed to encourage workers to live beyond their current incomes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
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  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In my opinion your answer is exceptionally insightful and accurate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What do you personally think of this theory?
    I think that this is a brilliant explanation for what really happened back then.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  13. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    taxes pay for your Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, national defense, Coast Guard, FBI, etc
     
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  14. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    All the stuff that I never asked for.
     
  15. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    Actually it is wrong. Inflation and hyper-inflation are actually separate phenomenon. While it is possible to cause inflation by printing money, it is not possible to create hyper-inflation that way.
    The reason for this is that over printing money causes the value of money to fall in relation to both assets, and wages. Wages and the costs of goods and services grow together in lock step.
    Hyper-inflation is caused by a massive loss of production, or GDP. Weinmar was not created from money printing, the money printing was a response to the hyper-inflation that was being created by the massive loss of goods and services induced by the Treaty of Versailles. The Treaty of Versailles was draconian in scope and stripped Germany of not only of the wealth in its treasury, but of its production. Most all the production of factories and agriculture were taken, and shipped out of Germany by the Allies in Europe. When there are little or no goods to buy, the costs of goods skyrockets. Labor however remains plentiful and wages will not keep pace. In addition, because the goods are not generating profits, there is no funds to purchase materials or pay for overhead creating insolvency. Throughout history when ever there has been hyper-inflation, you will see it is always a loss of production that causes it.
     
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  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well said.....
    there was great inflation during the era of President Lincoln......
    which is logical when the most productive workers are taken off farms and out of whatever factories existed at that time.... and given cannons and muzzle loaders and rifles to shoot at each other!

    One of the reasons for the issuing of Saving Bonds during WWII was to take money out of the economy..... so that there would be less inflation.

    Econ4Every1 taught me that one!
     
  17. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    But you are part of a community with representative government "to promote the common welfare..."

    Ironically, if we had a rules based international system, then money could be created as required, to achieve sustainable, inclusive economic prosperity, since the physical and intellectual resources to achieve that outcome actually do exist (as postulated by MMT).
     
  18. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    So yeah. Stuff I never asked for.
     
  19. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Bullshit.
    It could all be paid for with debt.
     
  20. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    You are right about Labor but consider the Fisherman. His labor catches the fish. But he sells the fish to us and we eat the fish. We do not eat his labor.

    Wealth comes in a good many forms.
     
  21. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    A lot of of spending by Congress is actually paid for by debt.
     
  22. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Well, that sounds fairly unsustainable.
     
  23. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Sounds to me like you understand Milton Friedman as well as Amity Shlaes.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  24. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    You are correct.
     
  25. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    We do not consume most labor, we consume the product of it. The majority of the profit however is funneled to the top of the food chain.
     
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