Why doesn't socialism work?

China is still a socialist country.

 

There is a better question to ask - "Why doesn't Capitalism Work" ? - answer that question - and you will have the answer to your first question. The proper answer that is

 

You need to learn about the market reforms beginning around 1978. China is not socialist as we have defined the term for purposes of this thread.

 

That's not a better question. Capitalist countries have toilet paper and food on the store shelves. And the secret police don't torture us for criticizing Trump.

 

So how would you define China?

 

I ignored your previous extreme example of socialism - and conflation of socialism with totalitarianism - now you are doubling down on that silliness - forcing me to protest this fallacious depiction of reality - followed by some dumb toilet paper analogy - and there are plenty of Capitalist countries where people can't afford toilet paper.

If you do not understand the destructive nature of capitalism - you can not have an intelligent conversation about socialism.

And certainly nothing you have said thus far resembles intelligent convo w/r to Socialism.

The extreme example you bring up Venezuela - a totalitarian form of "wealth redistribution" you will notice that a few elite own most resources and means of production. With Extreme Capitalism you get the same -a few elite owning most resources and means of production - The Feudal system would be an extreme example of a form of totalitarian capitalism - a system which we have become more and more like with time - but different in many ways.

We have have mixed some of the worst elements of both into an ugly beast - I call it the Oligopoly-Bureaucracy Fusion Monster.

I am sure you would do ok arguing the Bureaucracy part of that story - not so well telling the Oligopoly side.

Capitalism can be a destructive monster - that is a historical fact. You don't realize this because Socialism has tamed that beast in modern times - to some degree.

In the same way folks today don't understand "Give me Liberty or Give me Death" - "Those who would give up essential liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security" - because they do not know the abuse of rights that these fellows did - you have not experienced the bad side of capitalism - nor studied it from a historical perspective.

One thing is for sure though - this is not some black vs white - good vs evil - paradigm ..as such - describing it in those terms - as if only one extreme exists - doesn't make sense or fit in with reality.

 

They don't make toilet paper because they decide other spending is more important.

 

"Success" is 25% of hardworking Americans being paid LESS than the Federal Poverty Level?

"Success" is homeless people sleeping on the streets?

"Success" is your criminal IMPOTUS stealing $3 TRILLION from taxpayers?

 

That is EXACTLY what is happening NOW under DEREGULATED capitalist GREED!

 

Your criminal IMPOTUS has INCREASED spending by $3 TRILLION!

Why is that not making you nervous?

 

Communism crushes innovation, creativity and ambition.

 

Communism : the money only goes to the corrupt oligarchy

 

China expropriated the property of approx 65 million Chinese villagers which their local governments sold off to developers to build their ghost cities on. Property rights are one of the bastions of freedom. In other words they took poor people's land and made lots of money from it, if those 65 million people were allowed to sell their land China would actually have the middle class they so desperately want and need.

You are correct China are not Socialist, they are Communist

 

not in the case of say CCCP where these were thriving; only ceased to be once it has been destroyed.

not much of a oligarchy. Soviet bosses were paupers compared with there Western counterparts.

 

The device you are using to connect to the internet is a product of capitalism. The Jordache jeans you are wearing right now are a product of capitalism. The glasses you are wearing and the soda you are drinking are too. Your life would be unrecognizable if capitalism were removed from your life.

Yet you pretend to disdain it. Another one of those "School for the Gifted" scenarios?

 

Using that same standard the Dutch, British and Afrikaners in South Africa were "Communists" given that they all "took poor people's land and made lots of money from it".

Furthermore that "standard" applies right here in America given that the same thing was done to the Native Americans.

How much of the Aboriginal lands were taken from them in Australia?

Are you accusing all of those who stole land from poor people of being Communists?

What happened to the "property rights" of all of those poor people in the past?

 

rather that of it having won the cold war, otherwise we would have the www as product of socialism.

 

The internet itself is a socialist concept because the military is based upon socialism and it was DARPA that funded the internet.

 

Mikhail Kalashnikov designed the AK47, which may well be Russia's latest creatively innovative product. Sad that he died so poor, had he been a citizen of nearly any western wold nation he would have likely been the richest man who ever lived. But he was a citizen of a communist nation, and because he was, all he got was a ribbon.

Communism? No thanks.

 

Had the Soviets won the cold war, we would all be using 80's tech still, since R&D into sneakers, or anything else for that matter, would be seen as a frivolous waste of government resources and might have landed you in Siberia for doing it.

There would be no competition between sneaker brands, they would all be government issue.

 

At what point do you adhere to the teachings of "From each according to their ability, To each according to their need"? At what point do you give your own personal property up?

 

I don't pretend to disdain all of Capitalism - you need to get out of the black vs white - good vs evil - "God vs Devil" paradigm you are living in.

There are good things and bad things that come from capitalism - as there are from socialism. Neither is "All Good" or "All Bad" sans the kindergarten analysis.

So quit building Strawmen - and quit Projecting - and check your own soda glass before trying to slip a rufi into mine.

 

latest? Soviet computer & space flight science don't count? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Russian_innovation

he got privileges, wich is most important, for example, the best healthcare, and he wasn't poor.

 

only in the 1990s maybe, like it was with Western tech prototypes.

but of course then we'd move further in development.

 

You are making the fallacious assumption that everyone values property the way you do.

Let me put it to you another way with a hypothetical scenario. You become the wealthiest person in the world and have EVERYTHING you ever wanted! By that I mean absolutely every single possession there is to buy you can have for yourself.

There is just one condition for all of that wealth and those possessions. You no longer have any feeling in your body from your neck down!

Is being the wealthiest person in the world worth losing all feeling in your entire body?

Only you can answer that hypothetical question but I don't know of anyone who would accept that condition.

If you don't like that option here is another hypothetical instead. You OWN every single thing on the entire planet. EVERYTHING is yours and yours alone.

The only condition is that you are the only person on the entire planet. There is NOBODY ELSE, just you!

Wealth and possessions are MEANINGLESS by themselves!

They only have the value that someone wants to place on them.

Who actually NEEDS some over engineered sneaker when people have been wearing shoes for millennia that all worked for them?

As Bill Gates pointed out that even with billions of dollars you just can't buy a better burger.