why dont we just pray our way out of all problems?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by galant, Dec 2, 2014.

  1. domer76

    domer76 New Member

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    I suppose could possibly comprehend a neutral creator of the universe. One that the Deists had in mind. A neutral or non-involved deity. But not the Christian god of the Bible. Of the New Testament, anyway. That god simply does not exist. If you wish to talk about the vengeful, jealous and spiteful god of the OT, you might be more accurate in what we see in the world today.
     
  2. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    This is a typical example of God's will:

    Exodus 34:12-13 (CEB) = "12 Be careful that you don’t make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you are going, or it will become a dangerous trap for you. 13 You must tear down their altars, smash their sacred stone pillars, and cut down their sacred poles."

    That sounds like something ISIS comes up with.
     
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    some believe their god is a jealous and vengeful god that needs constant reassurance that he is believed in.....
     
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Chronicles+15:13&version=KJV

    2 Chronicles 15:13

    King James Version (KJV)

    13That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
     
  5. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    saying your particular favourite god is the one true god doesn't make it so. many many religions say the same thing, so if saying makes something true then all of their gods are also the one true god. PLEASE respond to this point. explain what makes your god the one true god (and you simply cannot use scripture or 'say so' because that's what all those others use ... and you deny them).

    oh wow, you were once barked at by dogs, who subsequently stopped barking, and THAT'S your evidence that a universe creating supernatural sky god watches you and takes care of you? do you have even the remotest sense that that is absurdly inadequate? has it not even occurred to you that barking dogs always stop barking eventually, for a zillion different reasons - most of which are entirely dogcentric?

    one more question (one I've asked you umpteen times, I think) ... were you indoctrinated into religion as a child?
     
  6. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Some religions have to retain believers by force and threats. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam come to mind.
     
  7. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    it's the ONLY reason they're still around. they happened to have big and powerful armies/leaders behind them back in the day, and the 'law' was simply carried forward. I know people younger than myself who were indoctrinated by force and threats, so even the 21st century hasn't completely broken the vicious cycle. either way, once the fear and threats are removed, few religions will likely survive as a common feature of developed societies. They'll only really flourish, in the way they did historically in the west, in cultures where the use of force and threats as a means of getting people to 'obey' is still standard.
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    exactly, if the bible were the truth, when someone read it, they would just go... duh, why didn't I see that before, there would be no need to defend the bible, it would just make sense, why doesn't the bible do this, because obviously man wrote the bible, not a god, thus the reason it needs to be forced on people to be believed
     
  9. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's a sad state of affairs that God, Jesus, and Allah are so unlovable that they have to force people to worship them. When Jesus was captured his disciples ran away like frightened sheep and denied that they knew him.

    When Jesus was in his heyday they were eager toadies.

    Luke 9:53-54 (GNT) = "53 But the people there would not receive him, because it was clear that he was on his way to Jerusalem. 54 When the disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?”

    It seems that they ran out of heavenly fire when he got into trouble.
     
  10. cassandrabandra

    cassandrabandra New Member

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    What I find really interestibg is the type of christianity practiced by people coming from traditional emerging societis. They give muslims a run for their money.

    I have recently had contact with south asian catholics, and their form of catholicism is very different from any I know. I have known anglicans from africa, and it is not the anglicanism I know.

    they also assume that because I live in a nominally christian country, I share their beliefs (many muslims from these regions also assume I am christian), and continually exort me to pray. Mostly I ignore it, but the other night the issue of my beliefs came up. I had made a comment that I don't celebrate christmas ( I know some christians who don't as well btw) and so I got a direct question regarding my beliefs. I got a lecture. When I politely asserted that I had formed by beliefs after careful consideration, I was greeted with silence.

    I have encountered this reaction only once before from a real person (as opposed to an internet troll),. I can't imagine what working with her is going to be like. Am I going to be ignored from now on ... or is the proselytizing going to be laid on thick.

    I also recently heard that many immigrants who were not christian in their own countries become chriatians when they arrive in the west, and then proceed to outchristian western christians, now they live in a 'christian' nation, so that they will dit in.

    they do this by forming their own churches ... like the korean pentecostal church, or the chinese evangelical church of christ ... that kind of thing.
     
  11. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Totally!

    The most obnoxious and evangelical christians I know are 'east asian'. They seem to think everyone shares their vice, and also that it's still 1952 ... everywhere.

    PS: some of them are relations of mine ... oy vay.
     
  12. Defender of Freedom

    Defender of Freedom Member

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    You are correct about the trauma that is the scares of tragedy, and how they linger on years after. And sure it is true that some tragedies go unattended, again this goes back to the choices of man to intervene, and whether or not they show charity to the victims. I will not deny that there are atheists who help victims, however I believe it is God motivating people to aid these areas, especially for the christian groups, they bring there charity because they care but also because of their faith. I believe even atheists can be motivated by God, they may simply not know it.
     
  13. Defender of Freedom

    Defender of Freedom Member

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    Satan was an angel created by God. Angels were given free will and most chose to stay with God, Lucifer thought he could do it better and he and the others that followed him were banished to hell. Lucifer tempted mankind to abandon God, and had Adam and Eve eat from the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. He banished them from the garden of Eden, that mankind must work to eat and survive and if they stayed faithful to God, he would bless them, If not, the devil would have his way with them. It is a part of his plan, that with the return of Christ, Satan would be cast into the lake of fire and peace for 1000 years would ensue for those who had faith in God. Life is a battle between good and evil, between God and the Devil. God loves all his creations, even those who defy him, but in the end he will destroy Satan and evil forever. I am paraphrasing Genesis and Revelations and others may have different interpretations of it but that is the basic concept.
     
  14. DarkDaimon

    DarkDaimon Well-Known Member

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    Let me get this straight. God, who is omniscient, meaning that He knows everything, created a being that He had to have known would betray Him but did so anyway. On top of that decides that instead of destroying Satan when Satan betrays Him, to just banish Satan to Hell where we can tempt humans, sending them to Hell (which God also made). Then after several millennia, God decides now is a good time to destroy Satan and all the souls that Satan tempted are now in Hell for ETERNITY. I wonder how many people end up in Hell because God didn't feel like destroying Satan the first chance he got?

    Maybe God thought that Satan could be redeemed and be united with God? But then, the whole part in Revelations where Satan is destroyed would be wrong which means the Bible would be wrong, which means it is not divinely written. If the Bible is right though, then Satan cannot be redeemed and God knew it, If fact, since the Bible cannot be wrong, Satan CANNOT have a choice, so he doesn't have free will. If Satan doesn't have free will, then God "programed" him to be evil.

    Quite a conundrum you have there.
     
  15. Defender of Freedom

    Defender of Freedom Member

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    I do not believe what the witnesses believe, that is there practice not my own. You are forcing your beliefs on me as much as they are on you if you wish to go there. If they were truly trying to force there beliefs on you, they would be in prison, much as I wish the members of ISIS would not force their religion on others or execute them on the spot.

    My statement about 'turning it against God' refers to atheists saying "how can we have a almighty God if he lets this happen" and using that as an argument against religion. I do not see how my God has not stood up to the realities of nature, I suppose you may have misinterpreted what I have stated. Again, I do not know the mind of God, and I would be foolish to think that I did because I am human. Whatever his plan is in the end, it has worked out for me and millions of others, and I will continue to follow. That is why it is called faith, my friend.
     
  16. cassandrabandra

    cassandrabandra New Member

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    I don't think you know much about it really. Its not always about whether people intervene or not. Last years typhoon in the phillipines had, and has, lots of intervention that is ongoing. , but to recover from that, even with massive intervention, will take years. And then this weeks typhoon again traumatised victims ... although to their credit, the phillipine govt learnt from that, and had much better early intervention which saved lives.

    you can believe its god motivating people all you like, if that makes you feel better. Maybe that means there are many atheists who are more christian than many christians ... but maybe it means that some people, regardless of faith, have a stronger commitment to working with and helping others. Maybe because of how they have been brought up, maybe because of what they have seen or been exposed to, or maybe because of some innate characteristic. I generally like these people rehardless of whether they are believers or not, and I find they don't waste their time talking about what they do or don't believe. They just get on with it.

    a lot of people I know in the helping professions are atheist. Maybe thats because it is difficult to reconcile the idea of god with the harm that seems to be done either by him, or in his name.
     
  17. cassandrabandra

    cassandrabandra New Member

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    yes, but it leaves too many unanswered questions. Why would an omniscient god create something he knows will be a thorn in his side for eternity, as well as ensuring human suffering, and eternal damnation for people who fall for his lies ... which is made more likely because god is such a poor communicator, sending so many mixed messages that people have no idea what to believe.
     
  18. JOJO50

    JOJO50 New Member

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    You're a sad being,really! :blankstare: you always have something negative to say, though I understand why. And think one should respond the way you feel one should. If you read right...again!, you would have seen, the question WASN'T about me and my God. You have such an evil heart that you take someone's situation and act as though you were there. And as always because you don't believe, you KNOW!... why it happened the way it did. It's it hard to NOT be nasty if you can't say something productive? :confusion: I could understand your post to me if I had responded to you. But I guess you felt you had to respond for the guy, who's come back I was expecting. Or maybe it was the fact that you wanted to play your game of let me pick at Jojo....again! :wink: This topic wasn't about what YOU... want to hear, yet you make it that once again.

    Also if you had taken the time to read ALL my post concerning “my God”. Instead of making it seem as though your ONLY reasons for wanting a response from me. was to respond back negatively. You would have seen I did!, As always ANSWERED. :roll: As I've said before, I’m NOT afraid of questions. It just seem like you're more about picking instead of learning or trying to understand. And I wasn't sent here...by “my God” for that as I also said before. I’ve said to you and others, before, there are some who wants the truth. That's why I’m here, NOT to play someones game of , answer my questions so I can pretend you didn't, I don't have time for that. but if you feel the need to say ,i won't respond to your questions concerning “my God” because I’m wrong...and you're right, it's your world. Peace....and love :hug:
     
  19. cassandrabandra

    cassandrabandra New Member

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    hmmm ... not sure who this was responding to, but I suggest you go and pray, and think how Jesus would respond if he was in your shoes.
     
  20. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Geneticists have located the specific area on the Human Genome resonsible for AGING.

    RIGHT NOW...Geneticists can extend via Genetic Engineering Life Expectany by at least 20%...if you have the money.

    Eventually they will be able to stop aging but I am sure I don't have to explain what a total disaster that would create.

    AboveAlpha
     
  21. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Although I don't believe in any of this....Lucifer was not just an Angel...he was Brother to Michael, Gabriel, Rafaelle and the other Arc Angels as all of them including Lucifer were THE SON'S OF GOD.

    Lucifer was most loved and considered the most beautiful by GOD and his brothers.

    He was cast out of Heven after refusing to bow down before Man as Lucifer refused to bow down before so flawed a creature.

    And this is EXACTLY the way a Human Being would write such a story.

    AboveAlpha
     
  22. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    The GREATEST EVILS that effect Man are not lack of Faith or influence of some DEVIL....the greatest evils of Man are IGNORANCE....LACK OF REASON.....and BLAMING OUR OWN MISTAKES AND FLAWS upon some non-existent entity.

    Only when Human's come to term with...we alone make our reality....will we finally have PEACE.

    AboveAlpha
     
  23. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    If Lucifer and the other angels are God's sons who's their mother(s)? Sounds like a Greek fairy tale.
     
  24. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Donor

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    The bold parts are correct. The rest causes the advanced ETs to laugh at us but not without also feeling sad for us.

    P.S. You do know that Revelations says that all will be saved/redeemed in the end, don't you?
     
  25. cassandrabandra

    cassandrabandra New Member

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    You are right. I had forgotten that god engaged in favouritism long before Cain and abel came on the scene ....

    and either he wasn't smart enough to learn from his mistake, or did it again because he's a sociopath who likes manipulating people, even his own children, no matter how serious the consequences are for them.

    An amoral god with no heart.
     

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