Will we ever tire of being so giving?

[video=youtube;MNvXQwFK0E4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpag e&v=MNvXQwFK0E4[/video]

Britain is the second most overcrowded country in Europe(in relation to land mass). The first is Malta. But never mind that, this mad open borders policy goes on all parties are obsessed with going on with it, doesn't matter if it is Labour or Conservative. Any party or person that dares even raise legitimate concerns and objections is shouted down.

Here we have a perfect example of how soft we are.

There was a big fuss not so long ago about the fact that if someone from a non EU country wanted to come live here, they would have to earn around £18k a year before being allowed to bring their partner over.

Cue the self hating hand wringers who will never be happy until they turn every European country, including Britain into an overcrowded crappola hole, as long as everything is equally crap they will be just fine with that. 'It's not FAIR', they whine. 'That means someone would need to have a JOB that paid £18k a year before they bring their partner in', they whinge.

So what?

£18k is NOT a high salary. You can earn it driving a bus in many cities. Or a taxi for definite. If you cannot afford to support yourself, then why in the hell should you think yourself as having an automatic right to then bring your partner over, and your kids.

I have absolutely no problem with some form of welfare system to assist our own people, but why should anyone that chooses to come live here, someone who has never contributed a single thing ever, feel they have a right to live off the host nation? And bring their brood over, no less?

Why does anyone think British people(or any people) want that arrangement?
We don't. We are never asked, and as I said, not only not asked but the option NOT to do these things at all is not even presented to us in representative politics

 

Is that official Nazi Party and National Front policy?

In regard to facts, Monaco has a population density nearly 1000 times that of UK.

Have you considered using true facts in your arguments?

I wonder how you would feel if other countries adopted that policy towards the British?

 

Monaco is not a country.

 

Darling, I beg to differ.

Below is an entry from Wikipedia pronouncing it a country. I have worked in Monaco so have first hand knowledge.

"It has an area of 2.02 km2 (0.78 sq mi), and a population of 36,371, making Monaco the second smallest, and the most densely populated country in the world".

 

Require immigrants to support themselves and not being a drain on society? Oh the horror!

 

Monaco is a country with full and equal standing within the United Nations, and has been since 1993. It's military security is, however, the province of France. A similar scenario exists with San Marino and the Vatican with respect to Italy, however, the Vatican is only an observer state of the United Nations.

 

It may be a country in your eyes, most in Europe see it as a mere province of France as you state.

Drifting from the point though.

The point is this.

If I came to live in your nation is it reasonable that I am able to demonstrate I can support myself?

Is it reasonable I could demonstrate that I could support my partner, if I wanted them to join me?

Or should the host nation simply let me bring who I like and pay the bill?

 

It is irrelevant what the people think, if a country conducts itself as if it were independent, then it is such.

I believe that if you immigrate to a country, you should be able to live independently of that country's welfare system, as well as any partner. Furthermore you should be able to make enough money to support your dependent children.

 

well, it's on wikipedia, there can be no error.

I don't know where he got that England is the 2nd most densely populated country in the world (it isn't an independent state, which by usage is what is meant by country), but I still think it's pathetic that people call places like Monaco countries. My family is not rich, yet I have multiple people in my family who have more land than that.

 

England is considered a constituent country of the United Kingdom, along with Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland. The terms "country", "nation", and "state" are often falsely used interchangeably. Nations are a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language. Countries are nations that have territory and a government A state is when an entire nation has one unified government.

Size doesn't matter when it comes to independence, countries like Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, and Andorra are all independent without question. Just because another country neighboring it is incredibly larger and more powerful, does not mean that the smaller country is no less sovereign.

 

You're actually wrong. A state as a body of government, and an independent state is... an independent body of government with no earthly authority it answers to. A nation you've pretty much got right, but a state that coincides with a nationality (i.e. Germany) is a nation-state, whereas Monaco is not.

....

 

But back to the actual MAIN point.

In what possible way is it unfair to ask an immigrant from outwith the EU to be able to show that ...

A) He can support himself

B) He can support the partner he may want to bring in.

I would take it as my duty to do that if I came to live in the US or anywhere. I would assume that this would be demanded of me.

I would want it to be demanded of me.

The fact that NO British party is prepared to apply this basic logic fully, and raise the bar further still is all the evidence anyone needs that mass migration to Europe is being used as a political tool against Europe, just in the same way that mass third world immigration to the US has been used as a political tool against European Americans.

 

I agree insofar as welfare is concerned in relation to immigrants.

But since I think most welfare shouldn't exist or should be scaled back, I have no actual problem with open borders.

 

The last word.

This has gone off topic in a side issue of nations and states.

The real issue is UK is proposing to inhumanely prevent legal migrants from bringing their family to join them. This is inhumane and contrary to UN policies and International Law, apart from violating commonly held morals and principles.

If the supporters of this proposal also proposed deporting and disposing of the families of those UK natives who do not earn this notional minimum income then there would be some equity in their proposals.

The UK urgently needs needs good genetic stock to upgrade its perpetually declining state.

Next step for UK bigots and racists will be to block the outbound emigration of those UK natives with high net worth who wish to live in a less bigoted country, nation, state, nation-state or city-state.

 

I fail to see how you can 'have no problem', unless of course you turn a blind eye to certain facts.

The first one being that no one has ever been asked if we wanted this, not in the US not in Europe, no one went to the people of the US or Europe and said 'Right, we have this plan to just let lots of second and third world immigrants in, which will never end, are you in favour?'.

Nup.

They don't ask us things like that, because they know that any man would soon understand the inevitable social consequences that will follow, and that we can see before our very eyes today, all over Europe and the US.

Do you have a 'no problem with it' if they come in and murder the people of the host nation, steal from them, and demand that they suddenly have the same 'rights' as all those that worked to create our society and all that was good in it? Do you have no problem with them coming in, if they refuse to integrate, therefore, destroying the v fabric of a nation? Would Italy still be Italy if it were 90% Somalian immigrants, for instance? Or would it be reduced to Italy in name only. It's rhetorical, since we can clearly see it would it would indeed be reduced to Italy in name only.

Would you have no problem when overcrowding began, housing shortages made worse, undue pressure put on things like the welfare state (which was meant as a protection for our OWN people)?

- - - Updated - - -

Yes how terrible we expect them to sustain themselves, instead of arriving as parasites, and bringing fellow parasites over, so that they too can bleed the tax paying British dry.

They don't like the rules? Don't come. Done and dusted.

 

Criminals don't get in. Everyone else are just people, and I'm not going to say No just because they're not "one of you". People are people, no reason to keep them out, and furthermore the fact that you consider immigrants having equal rights as a bad thing is abhorant. The problem is not them sucking up your money, the problem is socialism sucks up your money. The US used to have open borders, but the immigrants didn't destroy the place, they (*)(*)(*)(*)ing built it. And who gives a (*)(*)(*)(*) about your precious "fabric of the nation"? Being xenophobic because you want your culture to stay the same with no influences from anywhere else A) makes you look like (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s; B) deprives your country of valuable people; and C) deprives those people of getting a better life than they would have if they stayed where they were originally from.

And I'm not one of those Islamist apologists or anything like that. But while I'd never allow Islamic doctrine to become law, I would not prevent Muslims from immigrating. I'd focus on education and reformation, to moderate their religion so they become Westernized.

But bar people entry? So they're forced to live in whatever hellhole they're try to escape from? No.

If you have to put up with someone who isn't the same culture as you in exchange for their well-being I'd make that trade.

You vote BNP don't you?

 

People are born as parasites and continue in that state for at least 20+ years if college educated. Some never evolve from the parasite state.

How about this debate. Are British parasites better than foreign parasites?

 

No. They are a joke, and so is your position that we should just bring ruination on our own lands.

 

This is about immigrants INTO Britain being able to support themselves.

That is the subject, but for what it's worth all people of European heritage belong where they are. It's their home, and any issues internally should be ours to address internally. These immigrants on the other hand do not belong here, their language, culture, customs, and religion is entirely alien to us. We owe them nothing and we keep on giving. They give us nothing and go on wanting.

 

There are countries that are so dependent on other countries that you can only wonder if they truly are just a possession by some other name. Monaco is that way with France. Monaco does not define herself as a country. She defines herself as principality and a city-state. She and France are tied at the hip. Another tourist location where you can see some autonomy but yet that close relationship is Majorca. They think they are autonomous; but I visited there last year and truly it was a possession of Spain (no matter how autonomous they would like to think they are).

 

If someone expats from another country to UK, is the UK obligated to allow the family to come too? That's not the deal in USA.

 

Immigrants don't bring ruination despite what you say.

I'm about improving everyone's lives, not just keeping one little country 'pure'.

 

If it wasn't for the Italians and the Nordics who both conquered, pacified and civilized UK, British would still be painting their faces blue and beating each other on the head with large sticks.

Wait! The British football hooligans are doing exactly that.

UK urgently needs ingestion of new genetic material so that British born parasites can compete with foreign parasites.

Bring on the immigrants, families, footmen, batmen and bongo drum players.

 

His point still stands, the people have never been asked. Who cares if you like it or not, the people of the country should have their say rather than elites forcing their beliefs on everyone else.

Btw theres 80m new people born into poverty every year, there is no way one little country like England, nor all of Europe, nor Europe or the US could even make a difference to that. If you want to improve their lives it needs to be done in their own countries where they are.

 

Yes - and don't take any cues from the idiots running the USA who would sell their nation's sovereignty wholesale for a few more votes..